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 Post subject: Building a garden studio
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:28 am 
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Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 7:47 am
Posts: 3
Location: Surfleet, UK
Hi all, this is my first post on these forums! I've posted a bit on homerecording forums though and have had good advice there, but it seems quite a lot of those guys post here too! So i thought I'd spread the love.

I'm in the process of building a garden studio for use as a guitar teaching space and jam room for my band. I would like to record in the future and use it as a live room. I'm probably looking to mix in there too, maybe just doing headphone mixing though as I'd like to avoid deadening the sound with treatment much.

Currently I've built a concrete slab as a base. I originally built it with a smaller room in mind just for teaching, but since then I've started playing in a band I'm seriously considering extending the base to make the room more comfortable and 'bigger' sounding.

As it stands the slab is 3.1m x 5.1m to the external walls, this leaves me around 2.5m x 4.5m internal space once I build 150mm external stud wall and 100mm internal isolated wall with 50mm cavity.

I understand it would be extremely benefical to extend the short wall, but I'm bound by me and the wife sharing a house with the in-laws, and therefore I have to negotiate for the garden space. Ha! :wink:

The family are most opposed to extending short wall alot into the garden more, as the garden width is limited, whereas the length is limited only by budget, as we have a very long thin garden.

How would you guys advise me to proceed with the width limitation?
I'm thinking I can negotiate 1m or so extra width putting me up to 3.5m ish internal width.
I understand larger room are always 'better', but could I compensate for a narrow live room by increasing some length. Height isn't fixed but I was expecting around 2.75m ish.
I'll do some drawings once I get some ideas for dimensions.


Thanks in advance all! :D
Dan


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Hi there Dan, and welcome! :)

Quote:
I'm probably looking to mix in there too, maybe just doing headphone mixing though as I'd like to avoid deadening the sound with treatment much.
Mixing on headphones is not really much f an option, as you never hear what other people will hear if they are NOT listening on headphones: You never hear who your mix sounds in the real world.

Also, control rooms should not be "dead". That was a concept from the 70's that thankfully died. Control rooms these days are designed to be neutral. The thinking is simple (and logical!) The control room should not color the sound in any way: it should neither add to nor subtract from the sound coming out of the speakers. It should just transmit that direct sound from the speakers to your ears, perfectly clean, clear, and unadulterated in any manner. So your control room should not be dead.

However, it won't be very live either ... unless you add treatment that makes it so. It is entirely possible to design variable acoustic treatment that can be changed in some way in order to modify the room acoustics: panels that open, slide, flip, rotate, or move in some way or other.

Quote:
this leaves me around 2.5m x 4.5m internal space
That's pretty small, even for a control room. ITU, EBU, AES and other specs related to control rooms all recommend a minimum floor area of 20 m2. That's not to say that you can't build a successful room with less area! You certainly can! I have designed several rooms with less area than that, and John has designed a studio that fits in a shipping container. But the smaller it is, the harder it is to treat, and the lower the quality will be.

Quote:
once I build 150mm external stud wall and 100mm internal isolated wall with 50mm cavity.
Why did you choose those dimensions?

Quote:
I'm thinking I can negotiate 1m or so extra width putting me up to 3.5m ish internal width.
:thu: I would definitely do that! Long thin rooms are pretty lousy acoustically. There's no decent ratios for rooms like that.

I would also make the building structure itself "thinner", so you can maximize interior room width.

Quote:
I understand larger room are always 'better', but could I compensate for a narrow live room by increasing some length.
Take a look at "room ratios" and "modal distribution", and play around with some room ratio calculators: You'll find that long thin rooms don't stack up very well...


- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:05 am 
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Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 7:47 am
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Location: Surfleet, UK
Hi Stuart,

Thanks for replying. I've been able to get in touch with planning and I'm quite sure I'll be able to extend closer to my boundary. Which is great news!

My external width should be looking now at around 4.1m. With 2 x 100mm studwork with a 25mm spacing (I agree making the walls thinner is a better option) and two inner layers I'm looking at around 3.6m internal. Much better.

I was hoping to do a nice 12degree slope in the ceiling and roof to reduce echo. And hopefully give some assymetry for the room for recording. Internal starting around 2.4m sloping to 3.1m gives me an average height of 2.75m ceiling height. So (acknowleging this likely screws up any 'golden' ratios) plugging in to the ratios in Rod's book I can sortof get second best Louden ratio: 1 x 1.3 x 1.9, if I make the internal length 5.225m. Which only requires extending the room another 0.6m in length. Again good news I think!

About the mixing in headphones: I understand you can never really get the true sound when not mixing in a room, but as I'm a real beginner in mixing I'd rather the room have a really good live sound, and then later down the line if needed add additional treatments to improve room mixing whilst maintaining the feel of a nice reverby natural space to record in.

I'm working on a sketchup design at-the-mo that I'd like some opinions on when it's done if anyone has time, please.

Dan


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:11 am 
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Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 7:47 am
Posts: 3
Location: Surfleet, UK
I'm in the process of designing the ventilation and cooling/heating system for my studio, but I'm really having trouble sizing my fans.

I was planning on having a portable air cooler/heater to control temperature that I can turn on and off between recording, if it's too loud. This requires ventilation separately.

From Rod's book I know I need around 75CFM of air for a max of 5 people to be comfortable. My idea was to put a wall mounted ventilation fan on the external wall - flexible ducting through to the isolated inner wall running into a boxed baffle in the soffit of the internal wall.

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of:
Attachment:
duct baffle.jpg

But, for my room the ducting through the wall would stop at the outside of exterior wall and fit into a wall mounted fan.

I'll also put a second baffle box in the opposite soffit but without a fan to draw air from.

I know that reducing the velocity of the intake makes the system quieter, but I'm struggling to calculate what I need for a through the wall fan.
For example: A fan like this - http://www.ventilation-system.com/item/247/OV1_150/.

It says it has a maximum air capacity of: 117.8CFM which seems to fit the bill. But I can't see any mention of velocity in the specs.
Quite a bit of the info in Rod's book seems to focus on ducted systems, so I'm struggling to translate this into my requirements.

Can someone talk me through this a little bit please?

Thanks in advance,
Dan


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