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 Post subject: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
Hi! First, thank you for this great site! i have been reading this few years, and now i´m writing here first time, asking your advice. Hopefully i have understood all necessary rules.
I am 62 year old guy, ex-profession, now amateur musician (drummer) and i´m going to build a studio with control room. I´m making recordings, using acoustic drums, rock-music as genre. My adult boy is also using studio, mainly hiphop and rap scene.

Planning is to build studio in to cellar, in house where i live, most of time alone. Nearest neighbors house is about 20 meters away. My house is in downhill, cellar walls otherside under earth and other up. I made underground drain project 2 years ago and then i installed 100 mm thick insulation to outer walls under earth and 200 mm thick insulation under floor. So cellar is dry and there is no need for extra insulation for climate.
Cellar walls, ceiling and floor is made of concrete.
My budget is 2000-3000€
In attachment is a skp-file and i am asking your advice, how to plan control room and one tracking room in there?
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
Finally i can start studio project after delay!
My first question is that, what is the biggest size of skp files that i can post to to the forum. i did not find that in rules.

Thanks!

Hannu


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
Sorry! i found that. skp files must be under 500kb and i found how to make these smaller. Purge.

Hannu


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 10241
Location: Santiago, Chile
Right! But even so, if the file is still too big to post directly, then put it on a file-sharing service (such as DropBox) and post the link here.

- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
Hi! I`m starting to build a control room and live room in my house cellar and i`m trying to decide, should i build a control room to room 1 or room 2?
Room 1 dimensions are, lenght: 385cm widht: 323 cm hight: 232
Room 2 dimensions are, lenght: 435cm widht: 372 cm hight: 232

With room mode calculator i get results in room 1(first 10 modes):
1 44.55 Hz F1 1-0-0 ax
2 53.1 Hz G1# 0-1-0 ax
3 69.31 Hz C2# 1-1-0 tan
4 73.92 Hz D2 0-0-1 ax
5 86.31 Hz F2 1-0-1 tan
6 89.09 Hz F2 2-0-0 ax
7 91.01 Hz F2# 0-1-1 tan
8 101.33 Hz G2# 1-1-1 obl
9 103.71 Hz G2# 2-1-0 tan
10 106.19 Hz G2# 0-2-0 ax

and in room 2:
1 39.43 Hz D1# 1-0-0 ax
2 46.1 Hz F1# 0-1-0 ax
3 60.66 Hz B1 1-1-0 tan
4 73.92 Hz D2 0-0-1 ax
5 78.85 Hz D2# 2-0-0 ax
6 83.78 Hz E2 1-0-1 tan
7 87.12 Hz F2 0-1-1 tan
8 91.34 Hz F2# 2-1-0 tan
9 92.2 Hz F2# 0-2-0 ax
10 95.63 Hz G2 1-1-1 obl

In room 1 there is a fireplace made of brick, on the rear right corner.

Rooms walls, ceilings and floors are made of concrete. It`s a small studio and i know that there are limitations about results, but i want to make best i can and that`s why i`m asking your advice. Which room do you prefer as planning control room, 1 or 2?

Outer walls are concrete 20cm thick+airtight gap 3 cm+ 6 cm thick brickwall. There is no insulation material between concrete and brick walls, is it a problem? ( no chance to fill)

I`m not sure, should i continue my post here or should i write new? Takes time for me to learn, how to use this (great)forum. One thing is that english is not my first language, but i will learn more.

I said wrong earlier: gap between concrete and brickwall is 20mm, not 30mm.
My question is:
1. From outer walls(concrete 200mm thick+airtight gap 20 mm(no insulation)+ 60 mm thick brickwall) to inner leaf: 1 inch gap, studs with insulation between, 2 cypsum board. How about brickwall? Should i fill the cavity( 1 inch) with insulation, between studwall and brickwall? Should i put insulation material against brickwall?

Thank you!

Hannu


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
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Location: Lohja, Finland
Hi! Trying to get control room planning forward. Rfz-control room is my goal. Don`t know, is it possible with these dimensions. In this situation, i have two questions:

1. From outer walls(concrete 200mm thick+airtight gap 20 mm(no insulation)+ 60 mm thick brickwall) to inner leaf: 1 inch gap, studs with insulation between, 2 cypsum board. How about brickwall? Should i fill the cavity( 1 inch) with insulation, between studwall and brickwall? Should i put insulation material against brickwall(to stop possible flanking of brickwall)?

2. In flush mounting, how should i angle speakers, that the point where i sit, is in first 1/3 of room?
Skp-file in attachments is in right scale.

Waiting for answer, thanks. ( because of wintertime here in Finland, snow, snow and more snow and cold, i must start building soon)

Hannu


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
I have been reading this forum a lot, but haven`t find similar case or solution to my problem. So, please answer, if you know.

Two of the walls in control room(and in live room) are external walls and i don´t know should i think that they are 2 leaf or one.
External walls from out to in: concrete 200mm +airtight gap(no insulation) 30mm+ 60mm brickwall. Is this 2 leaf wall?

I´d appreciate your help.

Hannu


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 10241
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
Room 1 dimensions are, lenght: 385cm widht: 323 cm hight: 232
Room 2 dimensions are, lenght: 435cm widht: 372 cm hight: 232


I would go with Room #2. It's bigger and has pretty good modal response.

Quote:
Rfz-control room is my goal.
With Room #2 it should be possible, but room #1 might be a bit small for that.

Quote:
1. From outer walls(concrete 200mm thick+airtight gap 20 mm(no insulation)+ 60 mm thick brickwall) to inner leaf: 1 inch gap, studs with insulation between, 2 cypsum board
That would be fine. It's a three-leaf system, but there's plenty of mass on your existing leaves, so you should be OK.

Quote:
Should i fill the cavity( 1 inch) with insulation, between studwall and brickwall?
Yes! Definitely! But the gap will be much more than one inch. If you leave a 1 inch gap between the brick wall and the stud frame, and you use standard studs that are 3-5 inches deep, then you will have a gap of 4.5 inches. Which is good!

Quote:
Should i put insulation material against brickwall
Yes! You should fill the entire cavity with insulation: all 4.5 inches.

Quote:
2. In flush mounting, how should i angle speakers, that the point where i sit, is in first 1/3 of room?
You should set up the room so that your ears will e about 38% of the distance from the front wall to the back wall, roughly ( it does not have to be exact!), then set up the speakers so that the are centered about 28% of the room width from the side walls (it does not have to be exact!), and aim them so that they are both aiming at the same spot about 12 to 16 inches behind where your head will be.

Quote:
Two of the walls in control room(and in live room) are external walls and i don´t know should i think that they are 2 leaf or one.
External walls from out to in: concrete 200mm +airtight gap(no insulation) 30mm+ 60mm brickwall. Is this 2 leaf wall?
Yes it is a two-leaf wall, but don't worry about it: you have a LOT of mass in there, so as long as you leave a decent size gap for your final inner-leaf wall, you should be fine.

- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
Hi Stuart and thank you so VERY VERY much!

I choose room 2 for Control room. Next i`m gonna REW both rooms and go on planning control room.

Hannu


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
This seems to be a long way, but now back in busines!
Attachment:
CR front.JPG

Attachment:
CR rear.JPG

Attachment:
CR front left.JPG

Attachment:
CR front right.JPG

Attachment:
CR rear left.JPG

Attachment:
CR rear right.JPG

Attachment:
CR ceiling.JPG


Here is link for rew data:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7p3czkbuh0b3 ... -SEIa?dl=0

After measuring with REW, we listened some music in empty room. For the start, it was not bad at all. I suspected that it would have been worse. Cellar is partly under earth and there is lot of mass, maybe that`s good thing?
Measurement mic is Klark Teknik A.T.I. 1617, but i haven't found cal data of it.

I cant`analyze rew graphs and i really appreciate your possible help. And maybe i learn something.

Hannu


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 Post subject: Re: Studio in cellar
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Lohja, Finland
Sorry, here are pictures!


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