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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:41 am 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Thanks Greg, greatly appreciate the support! It's been a slog already and I have tons left to do, but I'm gonna keep just plugging away. Hope you can make some good progress on your build too!

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Yes, it makes sense to put your outer leaf in front of your furnace.


Awesome, thanks! That's what I figured but it's very helpful to have confirmation.

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Depending on where it is, you really should have it insulated. Outside of your outer leaf it doesn't matter as much but in that location, it can help with actual furnace/HVAC noise. Inside of your outer leaf, everything should be insulated.


All of the ductwork in the basement is insulated. I'm gonna keep as much of it as possible outside the outer leaf, but on a couple places I think that's just not gonna be possible, so I'm hoping by boxing it it/beefing it up, putting Rockwool in there, and the fact that it's already insulated will not hurt my isolation too much.

Thanks as always! Realistically at this point I am focusing on getting the other rooms done and that's gonna take probably til the baby gets here, but hopefully I can start chipping away at the studio room, and in the meantime I still need to finalize the studio layout, so I'll post again before too too long with updates.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:22 am 
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All of the ductwork in the basement is insulated.

External insulation over top of the ducts themselves, or are they LINED with duct liner?

What you want is for your ducts to be LINED with duct liner. This is what will improve your insertion loss. Ducts that have external insulation are improved only thermally, not acoustically.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:27 am 
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I'm not exactly sure, but you can see in the pics - I've attached another one for ease of reference. All ductwork is wrapped in the same shiny insulation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:48 pm 
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That looks like flex duct to me. Which is externally insulated. Be sure to use internally insulated duct for all of your studio ducts!

Greg

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:44 am 
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Whelp, too late for that :( I'm going to put as much as possible behind the outer leaf, and anything that is between leaves will have additional insulation...that's about the best I can do.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Whelp, too late for that :( I'm going to put as much as possible behind the outer leaf, and anything that is between leaves will have additional insulation...that's about the best I can do.

The best you can do is just that. At least you're trying your best! :jammin:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:00 am 
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I'm not exactly sure, but you can see in the pics - I've attached another one for ease of reference. All ductwork is wrapped in the same shiny insulation.
:shock: That's a bit of a mess, actually! If you show that to a professional HVAC installer, he'd be rather shocked... and would likely suggest that you get that re-done properly. There are ducts over ducts, under ducts, around ducts, with not much discernible organization. But don't feel bad: a lot of houses end up looking like that, because the work was done by a contractor who just wanted to finish quickly, and didn't really plan it right, or do it right. HVAC is the often "poor relative" of the construction proess, that gets the least budget and lowest priority... a sort of "afterthought" tagged on at the end.... producing the type of mess you have there...

I'm sure it works, but it doesn't work with high efficiency, and takes up more space than it needs to....

But anyway, it is what it is! Unless you are prepared to get that re-done properly (which would cost money...), you'll probably just have to live with it...

- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:33 pm 
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Hey guys, I was wondering if it would be possible to only have a SINGLE baffle box per supply or return vent, situated in the attic above my studio with an MDF "sleeve" that extended through both leaves but was isolated via acoustical caulk like in the attached very primitive sketch? I used Rod's book to build my room within a room in the garage but it had no plans for baffle boxes in it and I need to add them. Acoustic drums are played along with loud bass and guitars so low frequency insertion loss is desired. I was planning on using two pieces of 3/4" thick MDF for each leaf of the boxes. The studio uses double 5/8" drywall on both leaves so I'm trying to maintain that level of mass in the baffle boxes and sleeve. Thanks in advance for your help


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:47 pm 
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Hi. Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things! :)

Quote:
I was wondering if it would be possible to only have a SINGLE baffle box per supply or return vent, situated in the attic above my studio with an MDF "sleeve" that extended through both leaves but was isolated via acoustical caulk
If you only need moderate levels of isolation, then it is possible to do that, yes. But not for high levels.

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Acoustic drums are played along with loud bass and guitars
... up to this point, it was possible, but then you said "acoustic drums" and "loud bass guitar".... So I'd have to say no, not a good idea.

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I was planning on using two pieces of 3/4" thick MDF for each leaf of the boxes.
I'm not sure what you mean by "each leaf of the box"... silencer boxes only have one leaf. There's no way you can make a box with two leaves and still have the leaves fully decoupled.

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like in the attached very primitive sketch?
That sketch shows a box that has a resonant cavity inside the walls, and with fully coupled sides of the cavity... It does not show a two-leaf box. It is also using MORE wood than you would have used to make two separate boxes, and is much larger than either of those separate boxes would have been.... and even though you call it a "baffle box", there are no baffles in it.

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situated in the attic above my studio with an MDF "sleeve" that extended through both leaves
How deep are the floor joists in your attic? If they are large enough, then it is feasible to build silencer boxes between the joists. In very tight spaces, I have done that, and it works... but yu do have to design them carefully.

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I used Rod's book to build my room within a room in the garage
So the studio is already built? It would be a good idea to start your own thread, and post photos in that of what you have, along with the detailed plans of how you did that.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:16 pm 
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My apologies for hijacking another user’s thread. I appreciate your comments and will start a new discussion on this topic


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:45 am 
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Sorry I didn't see the last couple posts, I don't think I got an email notification but either way have been busy having a baby! Thankfully now that's out of the way ;) Not much to post other than to say thanks for the input on the HVAC stuff. I will do the best I can but we've already put the money we can into addressing it - I'll post more pics later on, and it has been re-routed a bit to clear some space, but at this point it is not going to change.

I've had to focus on building the other rooms in the basement, and I thought I would have more help on that, so I haven't actually done a single damn thing on the studio part. So unfortunately I will be moving my music stuff into the spare room that we built out for hopefully not more than 6 months to a year while I work on the studio build. So after all the planning, I'm understandably frustrated but it's ok - at least I'll have a place to make music and the baby has a nursery.

Anyway, just wanted to check in...I will probably be asking for some advice on cheap treatments for the temporary room, maybe some bogos that I can then repurpose for the studio. Isolation will be crap but I'll still need to track vocals and do some mixing in there. I will obviously not be expecting professional results and can't spend much money, but I'm hoping to make it usable. I'll do some more research and have specific questions before I take up your valuable and much appreciated time :)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:26 am 
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Congratulations on the baby!

If it makes you feel better, my build is on hold due to mold issues. Granted I have a funny but usable little set up I threw together in half a day in my in laws basement with a tiny iso booth and "control room". The good news is I recently upgraded my editing/mixing suite from my walk in closet to my daughters bedroom. I'm debating putting holes in the walls to hang a few panels of insulation as I've been suffering doing a lot of mixing on headphones. It's a nightmare. But like you, working in such crappy conditions will inspire us to complete our builds!

Greg

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:43 am 
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Thank you! And major bummer about mold issues...part of my delay was to fix flooding issues, and that seems to have worked...fingers crossed! And yes, inspiration through crap! Love it :)

I will say, one of the walls on the spare room is the outer leaf for the studio, and following y'all's instructions of double 5/8 drywall, Green Glue, sealant, and insulation (I'm using Safe N Sound)...wow, it's remarkable how much isolation even that one wall provides. Granted sound travels all around it, but you can really tell that not much at all is passing through. And that's only one leaf!


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:17 am 
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Hello! OK, so I'm almost done with the "spare room" in the basement, which is what I will be using as my temporary studio for however long it takes to build the actual studio. I would like to invest a little bit of time and money into making it sound at least halfway decent, so I've been researching treatments/absorption panels/gobos. Here's what I would like:

1. To have whatever treatments I build be usable in the actual studio once it's built
2. To have a halfway decent area for mixing
3. To have a halfway decent area for tracking vocals

After looking around a bunch, I think my best bet would be to build two large gobos and six broadband panels. I apologize if this is confusing but I'm going to do my best to describe what I'm thinking.

For the actual/future studio, I think I would like the re-purpose the gobos as the second set of angled walls that will comprise the mix position. I haven't done the actual mix position planning in Sketchup, but in the first pic, you can hopefully see where I intend to build it once I have it figured out. The part that is just laid out will be permanently built to house speaker soffits, and I will do some refinements with the idea that it will be RFZ. Is this feasible? I like the idea because I could move the gobos to other locations when I'm not mixing, even just as out of the way as possible to make the room more comfortable for writing and tracking vocals. I am also thinking I could put them behind the singer when tracking vocals and try to figure out how to make that sound decent and not boxy. The absorbers are pretty straightforward, and please excuse the placement in the drawings, it's just to get an idea.

The second picture shows the temporary studio, where I would put the gobos behind the mix position to hopefully improve the overall sound quality. I know this won't be great but I'm hoping it's worth doing.

The other questions I have:

1. I'm going down an insulation rabbit hole again, and having trouble finding clear answers, especially given what I have available to me at a reasonably convenient distance. So my questions are a) is Safe N Sound OK to use in the gobos, and zooming out, b) is it ok to use basically everywhere else (in the walls of the rest of the studio build)? I know this has been covered a bit but I see the density is not as good as some other options. But it's always in stock at the Home Depot that is five minutes from my house. If it's significantly better to use something else, any suggestions on what would be in stock at a typical Home Depot or Lowe's? I've called around to try to find OC-703 or other rigid fiberglass, and the specialty stores so far are not open on weekends, so it's not ideal for me. I will order a case of OC-703 for the absorbers.

2. For my purposes, should I put plywood, drywall, or MDF on the rear side of the gobos? I may theoretically use them to try to get separation when tracking a band in the future, but that's not the main goal. But I don't mind adding it now if it makes sense. Seems like there's plenty of info on the construction elsewhere on the site so I'll try not to bother y'all for that :)

The third picture is the whole basement so you can get an idea of how it all fits together. Any help would as always be very much appreciated!


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:26 am 
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Quote:
is Safe N Sound OK to use in the gobos

Yes. If you're using them as your suedo rear wall treatment, use 6" thick (so two batts of it).

Quote:
is it ok to use basically everywhere else (in the walls of the rest of the studio build)?

Chances are it will work great for your temp room. When it comes to treating your actual control room, you'll probably need an assortment of insulation products in order to target problems.

Quote:
any suggestions on what would be in stock at a typical Home Depot or Lowe's?

Owens Corning R24 is cheap and the right density for targeting low frequencies. The Home Depot's around me carry the 16 O.C. size. You could maybe save some money building super chunks for your corners with this stuff instead of Safe n Sound.

Quote:
2. For my purposes, should I put plywood, drywall, or MDF on the rear side of the gobos? I may theoretically use them to try to get separation when tracking a band in the future, but that's not the main goal. But I don't mind adding it now if it makes sense.

With very heavy/thick material, you could achieve some isolation, but as you know, it won't help with low frequencies at all. It would help with higher frequencies only (like plexi in front of a drum kit at a live show). With your current set up, I would suggest laying guide tracks over a click track and then record one musician at a time. In my experience, unless it's off the cuff jazz improv, it always yields better and quicker results.

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The third picture is the whole basement so you can get an idea of how it all fits together. Any help would as always be very much appreciated!

Your drawing does not show any bass trapping. That needs to be priority number 1. I just leaned up a few 12" wide strips of insulation in two of the corners of my daughters room where I'm doing a little bit of work and REW measurement differences are staggering. They are only about 6 feet long so I'm missing out on tri corner benefits. I can only imagine how much better the room would be with nice wide devices in every corner. Anyway, I would treat your temp room as any other control room and apply one device at a time and take measurements. Targeting first reflections, tons of bass trapping, and of course having that thick rear wall treatment would be no brainer steps going forward.

Greg

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