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 Post subject: New Build?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:08 pm 
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I am part of a group about to build a studio in a L-shaped garage with 13 ft ceilings with about 1000 sq. ft....originally thought of using 200 sq. ft (most of the time) for storage of mobile van.....leaving 800 sq. ft for studio....250 to 300 s. ft for control room with side iso or vocal booths....leaving 500 to 550 sq. ft live room.....

Original dimensions/layout: see first attached image

First two possible layouts....see second and third images....both with sliding doors in middle of live room to facilitate easy loading/unloading....create possible additional space if mobile van is out its bay (use of portable Acoustic Panels to isolate as best can)....both essentially same

Second possible layout is fourth image....without sliding doors....control room in other end of garage

SO any thoughts or comments?


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Last edited by Nishplayer on Sat Dec 25, 2021 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:36 am 
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my thoughts - the CR and iso rooms will be too small. in this small of a space you're better off only doing rooms - live and CR. and after assessing the CR best ratio, then consider on the staircase side an isolation booth + an air lock to the stairs and (after moving) the exterior door. with the garage section - beef it up so it could be used but if there are noxious fumes from the vehicle or drippings on the floor, then it might not be usable.

first though - plan your HVAC. and exhausting the garage separately to the outside. oh, and plan your HVAC first. then re-check it. because you're building hyper-insulated sealed rooms. and apparently, even musicians and producers need oxygen, pretty much continuously or they pass out and die.

if its a commercial space, plan on implementing all the required disability act and safety requirements when you get your building permits.

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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:48 am 
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Location: Cork Ireland
Great work on the diagrams and planning, but +1 Glenn....

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http://www.irishacoustics.com
http://www.soundsound.ie


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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:18 am 
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After much back and forth we have decided to fully investigate doing one room without CR....the console/desk will be inside the tracking room....

PROS:
1)huge fans of Sylvia Massy
2)easier build/less cost
3)positive vibe being in same room without glass or walls between
4)better communication
5)maximum use of space
6)right in middle and can hear what sounds like

CONS:
1)less isolation?
2)one big room so need to adjust to
3)possible issues during mixes

Like the Mavericks Studio in NYC: http://www.mavericksrecording.com/

But think we are looking at something like this:

Image

Image

The studio is based on a one room concept made famous by people such as Daniel Lanois and Pierre Marchand. With the recording process happening in the same room as the performance, inspiration and communication are made easy.


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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:35 am 
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Location: Cork Ireland
Many sources require isolation due to level differences and susceptibility to being overwhelmed.
A singer and a drum kit in one room may look social, but sonically it is the opposite.
When time permits, e.g. an album, I tend to distribute all the unequals into different rooms.
Often there is not a visual. BUT the speakers are off. Everybody is in the One Can world of headphones. Talkback mic is permanently on.
I asked a Double Bass player friend if he misses the visual clues, the nods, the smell of the drummer.
He replied, my eyes are closed most of the time when I am playing.

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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:42 am 
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I'm reconsidering about not having control room....here is latest revisions to layout....have included an iso/vocal booth to one side of CR....another possible small booth on other side....but prefer the more open concept without small booth....

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:25 am 
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As far as the one room concept goes someone on another forum did a one room studio years ago and the drums being loud was always something that they didn't like so they later built a studio with a separate control room and liked that much better. It still felt intimate because most of the band could be in the control room while the drum set was in a tracking room with a window and door with window between the rooms so the players could still see the drummer etc.

Looking at my L shaped room one room design, they would use the larger section for the control room with space for players and put the drum set in the section where I have the piano in my drawing of one room with a wall between the two spaces. They felt it's nice for engineering to be away from the loud drums in a room. If the bass player preferred to be in the same room as the drummer you could do that.

With an L shaped room people won't be able to see each other very well so perhaps one could keep the players where they could see the drummer through a window and set the console and gear back where I have the drums in my drawing. You could even do a small guitar amp room to keep amps out of the control room too.

Just some different thoughts....worth considering....and I have revised layout several times and still tweaking....


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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:43 am 
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Latest revision

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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:58 am 
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one challenge is all access to the CR is via live rooms. this could be disruptive to activities in either room. and all access to the studio appears to be only from outside.

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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:11 pm 
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I have been working to accommodate a studio build in an L shaped garage....with 1000 sq, ft. of total area....13 ft 6 in ceilings....concrete block walls....concrete pad for floor....

My problem is that I have been struggling to put in a reasonable sized studio....maximizing space we have....but being L shaped in interesting to say the least....

This will be commercial boutique type of studio space....meant to be welcoming....great creative vibe....a place folks will want to come and record music....not sterile like some studios....but with a cool vibe

We have a pretty good list of equipment....including some vintage gear (mics, tape machines, Neve BCM 10 sidecar, and incredible outboard gear)....we have decided on the Fix console because of its innovative and flexible adaptability....originally we were going with the 24 channel but may now be adding another 16 or another 24 channel for a second studio space....

I do feel the need for good sightlines from the control room....so I went back to Phillip Newell's book on studio design....which I had read over and over, digesting all I could, before doing any possible studio layouts....I have included a few passages from his book that states the importance of visibility in layout of studio especially in regard to the CR....

Here is new layout:


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Last edited by Nishplayer on Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:30 am 
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agreed - visual communications is important, however, many designs do not simply scale to fit into a given space - in 18 years of designing, i seldom have portions of a studio design be truly reusable, and certainly, not one reuse of a full design.
so - without suggesting you go back to square one - you need to think though - start with big boxes - what functionality you want - 1 CR + multiple live rooms with booths in each? 2 CR - one main + main live room and booths, and one post prod with a vocal booth? 2 CR - one main + live room, second one post-prod size + vocal booth? lounge? bathroom? independent sections? access? security? fire safety? ease of load-in/out, etc. commercial requiring accessibility construction?

off the top - based on your latest image - maybe two CR - one main, one post prod. post prod (room B) would have vocal booth. option for video feeds into main live room. main CR + main live room - no booths. video feeds into B vocal booth. minimize actual window and use video feeds to create communication channels. in fact two-way video communications is often better because no one can hear your though the glass anyways :-) minimize lounge space - its not a night club. contemplate where someone can access a bathroom.

plan on investing at least $100K in the construction if using a contractor and commercial doors and windows.

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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:18 am 
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Further revisions

Have increased size of Room A CR....kept Room B same size....have increased easier access by using glass sliding door system....in second revision I have simplified Live Room A....in both there is increased space in Live Room A....

Image

Image

There is no access from A to B on purpose....better sound isolation for both rooms....keeping as two separate spaces

I have a studio designer/architect working with us to draw up detailed plans etc....we will building ourselves with help from several friends....licensed carpenter, experienced house framer, cabinet maker, wood worker among others....plus have family connections to contractor....electrician....and plumber....so hope to keep costs down as much as possible


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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:01 am 
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Also added second washroom plus sink...

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:48 am 
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i think the booths would be way too small. this seems like a large space, but then subtract about 2' per set of walls and its much smaller. 2x 5/8" + 3 1/2" + 1" (air gap) + 3 1/2" + 2x 5/8" not including plywood (recommended) and interior treatments (unless inside out walls).


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 Post subject: Re: New Build?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:59 pm 
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gullfo wrote:
i think the booths would be way too small. this seems like a large space, but then subtract about 2' per set of walls and its much smaller. 2x 5/8" + 3 1/2" + 1" (air gap) + 3 1/2" + 2x 5/8" not including plywood (recommended) and interior treatments (unless inside out walls).


Thanks to your great drawing I was able to revise our studio layout....with only one control room....larger than previously....still two live rooms....with a line of sight to both....better in Room A than in Room B....but still better than before....with your cleaner layout of actual size of space we are working with, I was able to figure out how much of space would be lost in the build....we are building a box in a box (or boxes in boxes....and these look like the easiest versions to build and more importantly to work in....more room in CR which could be use for recording vocals or even guitar in....and with a 24 ch. Fix console (or maybe 32) we should be ready to make some magic....make some great music....let me know what you think and thank you for your help:

Image

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