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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:14 am 
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Location: germany
Hi everybody.
I'm glad to have found the right place for my new studio.

I had play alot with different designs the last weeks, and end up with the following design.

First my plan was to not care about the celling height, because i don't know how to calculate the best ratios for a non rectangular room like mine.
now i will build a shaped celling with the lowest point frontside of the controlroom, an the highest backside.

My question is, how i can calculate the best hight?
The given ratios which i know until now, are based on rectangular shaped rooms.
Is there any formular which can help?
In the frontside there ist a maximum of 3m , and at the backside 3,4m

Thanks for your time and help.
cheers
mika :D


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Last edited by mika on Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:28 am 
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Hi Mika, and welcome.

Nice layout!

One suggestion: (More practical than acoustic): Your main door into the airlock from the hallway opens right across the doorway into your live room. That could end up being a pain, when people start walking into doors that were left open. Have you considered moving that door into the diagonal wall in front of the drums The one labeled "1805 mm")? I think it would make more sense there.

Regarding your room ratios: I'm really not sure, but I do recall reading somewhere that you can just take the average width of a non-square, but I'd confirm that first with one of the experts here.

Regarding your ceiling, I guess you already know that the recommended angle is to slope it at 12 degrees?

Your plan looks good though. I wish I had that much space!



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:11 am 
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Thank you for your suggestion Soundman.

:D

The reason for the door to the liveroom ist to use the given small space near the door.
In the moment i'm seraching for a new mainentrance door to the airlock, which will open to outside direction.

Any suggestions for the celling? : :?:

Do you think it will hurt my soundisolation to much, when i use the given celling?
My goal is to have nearly 60db to 65db isolation to the rooms next to the Studio, and also to the Foyer.
The given walls are 100mm drywall on metalstuds with one layer of farmacell gypsumbaord 25mm on each side

I will do some meassurements of soundtransmission of celling and floor.
The rooms are in the first floor of a factory . The space under the Studiorooms is used as a storage, but the rooms next to the Studio are one office, and one grouproom for a kidschurch.

Perhaps one of the pro's here can help me with my decision-making for cellingdesign in inclusion of acoustics and soundproofing.
cheers
mika


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:58 am 
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Your main door access walks you right into your "air". The walls of your drum room w/door would be more effective if they were reversed in position so that you had a double door entry way. It would also require a double door entry way into the control area.

I don't play an expert, even at home, but iirc, to establish a room ratio dimension as you want, you have to address the area like it is rectangular, no matter that it isn't.

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Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:40 am 
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Quote:
Your main door access walks you right into your "air". The walls of your drum room w/door would be more effective if they were reversed in position so that you had a double door entry way. It would also require a double door entry way into the control area.

is it possibile to make a rough sketch of your idea. Currently i don't understad what you are meaning :oops:


To clarify:
Each door i will use have a STC of 40db, nearly the same STC like the windows and the inner wallconstruction.

So i hope that i can count 40db inner wall plus 40db outer wall to 80db stc complete. :?: :D
Anyway the ventilation will lower the stc, because i run the ventialition without aircondition with warm air from the foyer. (it's a essential budget decission).
cheers
mika


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:44 pm 
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Location: Netherlands
Mika,

STC ratings are cool, but not so useable when it comes to (live)music. STC ratings have a frq scale without the low frq, and that's your main concern while building studios.

And adding 2 Decibel values is nothing like 1+1=2. Unfortunally...
Here's a great article from Lionel Dumond:
http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/10 ... dB-IQ.aspx


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:14 am 
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ro,

i have the same situation with my plan that i'm walking directly into my "air".
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11345

is it better then to build another "room" for the hall?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:55 am 
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Quote:
i have the same situation with my plan that i'm walking directly into my "air".

I don't understad the problem of this situation.
Perhaps you can explain the disadvantage !?
For my studio the airlock is just to have seperate doors for the controlroom, and the liveroom.
I don't like to go through the controlroom, to reach the liveroom.

@Ro

thnaks for the great link.

But what do you think about isolation. 2 seperate drywallstructures. one 150mm with one layer of 12,5mm gypsum on each side, and a second drywall with 50mm isolation, and one layer 25mm farmacell, an a second layer of 12,5mm gypsum... is this enough isolation for a controll room?

cheers
mika


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:26 am 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
But what do you think about isolation. 2 seperate drywallstructures. one 150mm with one layer of 12,5mm gypsum on each side, and a second drywall with 50mm isolation, and one layer 25mm farmacell, an a second layer of 12,5mm gypsum... is this enough isolation for a controll room?


That sounds like a three-leaf wall to me. If so, not good. You want TWO leaves. and only two, not three.

You'd do much better to move a layer of gypsum board (GB) from one side of the studs on the first wall, to the other side, so that you have two layers of GB on that side, and no layers at all on the other side. And if you put Green Glue in between those layers, then it makes it even better, especially in the low end.

Also, what is "farmacell"? Is it some kind of sound board? If so, then it's probably not worth it: Replace it with another layer of GB, once again with Green Glue in between. That's the best possible wall you can get!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:12 pm 
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mika wrote:
is it possibile to make a rough sketch of your idea. Currently i don't understad what you are meaning :oops:


Like this.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:29 pm 
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Much better!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:31 pm 
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Like X said, sounds like a three leaf. Stick with GB/frame/GB (M-A-M=Mass Air Mass)

Skip the Farmacell. For X; it's a Plasterboard with rigid foam attached to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:57 pm 
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is walking in the "air" a problem?
can someone explain?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:09 pm 
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Ro wrote:
Like X said, sounds like a three leaf. Stick with GB/frame/GB (M-A-M=Mass Air Mass)

Skip the Farmacell. For X; it's a Plasterboard with rigid foam attached to it.


"X" ????? And me???? :) (looks like I need a bigger signature... )

But thanks for the explanation!


- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:27 am 
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thanks for your tips but:

The outside walls are fixed and not allowed to change, so i have already 2 leaf's.
Now i need the new/inner walls for my room into room design with the controlroom and the liveroom. so i must have minimum 3 leaf's :(

Why is a 3 leaf system not good (in a few words plaese) :wink:

I have a sketch of the wallstructure attached, so you can understand my plans.


The airlock room i planed, has 2 reasons. The first is to reach ech room sepreately without corossing the other, and the second reason is, that i will use the celling area in the airlock for the silenceboxes of the ventilationsystem.

maybee you have another layoutidea, whicht take care of the given aspekts :D

Mikas Studio.skp

cheers
Mika


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