John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Wow ... made it thru a hectic gig schedule

Then ... last night .... a new toy shows up in the Control Room ....



Granted ... there are only 8 or so sheets going up on the ceiling ... but I figure
WHY should we struggle with this part of the install.

This afternoon had some laborer's carry a load of drywall down into the basement.
Tomorrow is slated to begin drywall install.

Also this afternoon had a consultation meeting with my HVAC guy. He very keen to the
requirements that have been presented in these forums ... and checks with me as to
isolation, decoupling concerns & solutions ... On top of that, he has plenty experience with
split ductless systems.

In one of the post that JSayer tagged regarding the fresh-air supplied split system, I've
been trying to locate a US distributor.
The original link is here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15724


As it stands now .... my HVAC guy took all room measurements & questions and is going to his
distributor to calculate the AC requirements. He also asked me to look [research] out
one of the HRV [heat recovery ventilator] designs [Fantec ?].
We also look at various install strategies [size & placement]. I'd like to diagram this out
in hopes the board GURU's would make sure I don't screw up!

More also .... my 'Super Door' guy is getting things together. At present, there is a 5'
gap in the door area, so drywalling will need to keep clear until we get that section framed
out. Not sure if we can even start the GG second layer before the door section is finalized.
See what they say ?!?

At least a few things are going on ... guess it could be called progress!
Should be interesting ... along with how the room sound goes into another transformation.

Thanks!!!!!

another option is the concealed duct system and attaching the ventilation function to that so if you're running air ducts anyways, do it once...

_________________
Glenn

Here's a basic drywall question !!!!

When dealing with 'outside' corners ... how should the drywall pieces be aligned. ?????

I've seen examples on doing inside wall corners ... that is, maintaining a 1/4" gap along the
perimeters ... ok ... that'll be filled with backer rod & caulk.

What I don't quite understand is how the 'protruding' corner edge is to be assembled.

The drywall guys say the usual way is to extend one wall out to the surface of the adjacent
wall, and then cover with a 'bull nose' corner piece.

Right away I was concerned

My guess would be ... extend wall to adjacent surface, and then the other wall is 1/4" gapped
from that.

However ... behind these protruding corners are some 4-6 2x4's, which are providing quite
a massive corner backing. whatever that means, I'm not sure how to proceed with this

Remembering .... I'm only on the first of TWO 5/8 ths layers. Whatever is correct, I'll need
to have a procedure for the 2nd layer.

Sorry if I'm making this more complicated than it may well be ... the 'area' in question are
for the 2 kick-in sections by the sump pump wall, and the symmetrical, opposite side.

Thank- you for your continued guidance !

Crew back in the morning

Alrighty then ...

Progress report.

Well ... major transformation in the construction of my control room.

Two days ago began the installation of drywall to the ceiling area. Let me start off saying
that the drywall lift is a nice invention ... and WELL worth the rental fee
Another handy adapter are the 'counter sinking drywall screw' attachment for the drill.

So we began ... the process went quite straightforward ... as we hoped. Every time a new
piece went up, I listened as the room developed a distinct character. As we neared completion,
the room had now assumed that, quite horrendous' comb filtered, slap back ricochet echo
that we all so despise
Before rapping up, we decided to get one sheet up on the side wall. Bro had to leave.
It was a good few hours work, as we talked over our strategy for the walls.

As I cleaned up ... I was now clearly aware ... I've just assembled the worst sounding room
on the planet. Everything that made a sound, from putting tools up, to walking, was absolute
sonic torture.

This afternoon I went back in to fill in some additional screws, and then began caulking the
ceiling perimeter. The room continued its' nastiness.

Early evening, Bro calls ... coming over to start walls. Great ... bring lighter fluid, I'm ready
to start a match

OK OK ... I confess ... I've been in several new studio builds. I recall the various states of
transformation that happen.

So ... on to the walls. Once again ... a rather straightforward process. The only real drag
was HAVING to drag more sheets down from the garage. Brother insisted it was 'easier' for
him to 'ONE MAN' it down the stairs.... and he did ... enough pieces to completely do the
1st layer of the inner room. Which we did


My question on the outer protruding corner handling didn't get much of a response
During my forum search, I did find 1 message by XSpace. I wasn't sure how to interpret.
Therefore I followed the 'inner corner' logic ... leaving a small gap behind the overlap from
the adjacent wall. Probably was a wasted effort [i don't know], as those corners are quite
beefy [2x4], with an extra nailer for the 2nd layer. Maybe someone will point me to the
answer on that ...

In the meantime ... the question was asked ... 'bull nose' the corner ??? plastic ??? metal???
somethin' ????

I'll get a few pix posted a little later!

oww ... something maybe a bit more interesting.

OK ... so we have a 6' opening on the side wall where the door is to go. My brother walks
out and down around the front of the room out where my desk and computer are setup while
we build. He comes back in and ask 'Did you shut off the radio' ... I said no.
hmmm ...
later ... I go out the room, and around to the front ... the moment I turn the front corner,
it was like a lite switch ... the sound of the radio STOPS

Granted ... it's NOT blasting in the room ... comfortable 'work' level [and of course, the room
sounds LOUD]. Now ... several times I've walked around the corner ... it again, the sound
just switches off.

I am encourage. Only the inside room has drywall ... unsealed. And the outer wall has the
6' opening ... at at the front has 2 bins that need insulation installed. [I did have a section
opened to walk back and forth from] I stoled one bin insulation for the inner wall.

Anyway ... just thought I'd relay that bit of observation.

Once again ... sincere gratitude for the guidance & education !

PLEASE don't leave me yet !
Thank-you!

"The drywall guys say the usual way is to extend one wall out to the surface of the adjacent
wall, and then cover with a 'bull nose' corner piece.

Right away I was concerned

My guess would be ... extend wall to adjacent surface, and then the other wall is 1/4" gapped
from that."


Your inside corners and outside corners should look the same. The drywall guys are correct in what they are talking about, excepting that they are thinking in terms of one layer, which for you will be the final layer that you will use a taped / cornerbead or bull-nosed finish.

_________________
Brien Holcombe
_____________________________________________
Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

Thanks xSpace ! Much appreciate your insights & guidance !

Although the body has taken a slight beating I want to get a few pix posted.

It began at the 'top', getting that first layer up on the ceiling:

Was always checking the enclosed insulation, and the amount of 'touch' to the drywall.

When we got to the walls, I used a few of the big paint stir sticks [free ], taping them in
place. On the floor, we stacked 2 sticks and measured tight to the ceiling.


Then, of course, when the wall piece goes in there is a single stick. This provided the gapping
at the top, bottom, and corners.

Various pixs:

The back kick-in walls.



Front left:


Front right:


View looking from outside the room thru the 'door area'.



As mentioned, it is hard to get good pix at this point ...

Sonic observations ... well, as we got more wall pieces up, the 'acoustics' morphed.
By the time the last piece, we could do, went in ... the room had become a quasi 'acoustic
chamber'. Now that most all surfaces were reflective ... it was a smoother more coherent
reverb. The room is LOUD. This was all expected.

After shop vac & general straightening up ... had the jam box going.

Decided I had to bring in the acoustic panels. I just set 8 of them against the walls.

NO doubt to the effectiveness of the panels ... just placing them about the room made it
much easier to be in there.

Still plenty to do
Finish screwing the 1st layer, caulking & pasting is next.

Thanks for following along.

"in a highly isolated space, no one can hear you scream"

_________________
Glenn

hmm ... that was my back doing the screamin'


Today I went in with caulking & mud. I now realize that drywalling & finishing is NOT
my calling

Anyway ... all the perimeters have been sealed with caulk. I DO want to wait a few days
to make sure that the seal remains solid.

Tomorrow is a call-in for the next order of drywall to be delivered. I WILL be hiring my
substitute for the next round, as I'll be manning the spacer sticks & the Green Glue gun.
That's about all I'm good for at the moment

The HVAC guy is coming tomorrow afternoon to take care of a household issue ... we'll also
talk more on the room requirements. I STILL have NOT been able to locate a US distributor
[at least in my area] that has that mini-split with fresh air combined. JSayer had posted a
sticky on it ... appreciate any leads.

Call is going out to my door man. It's been too quite on that front. I need that area
framed out before we can do the required interlaced drywall. Should know more soon.

Anyway ... a couple of pix.

As u can see ... I HAD to stack the absorbers around the room. I'm SURE you know why

You also have evidence on why my brother took my spatula away from me. All he said was
'You're FIRED'.

I guess the silicon buzzz I had going may have been a contributing factor. That's my excuse
and I'm stickin' to it.

Thanks guys for being here ... I always look forward to your comments/critique and guidance.

Sincerely
RJHollins

If you have access to a compressor, you might want to consider getting a pneumatic caulking gun. They just make the whole thing so much easier! Believe me, I can't even do as well as you did with a manual gun, but with the pneumatic one, I almost look like a pro... (OK, maybe not quite.... )


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

on the drywall side - you can use a 3M scrubber w/ handle (supermarket) and some warm water in a bucket to sand down the mud. just a bit of dampness and light scrubbing will smooth it down nice without a lot of dust and prep for a nice surface for the next (horizontal) layer of drywall...

on the HVAC - the unit John referred to only allows a supply but not return so you still need hole assuming you could find one. another option is the AeroPac which may be available via Canada (you're reasonably close...). barring that, i see some baffle box construction in your future to add a supply in the back and return up front.

_________________
Glenn

First ...

A BIG welcomed HELLO to Stuart ! I've been following your recent post and am glad
you are back here sharing your knowledge ! THANK-YOU!

Glenn has taken the burden of hand walking me through the Control design & adventure

Of course ... I read all the other build/design threads going on, hoping to learn a little more
each step of the way.


Well ... my Bro stopped over yesterday ... he was rechecking my work, and laugh when I
told about being 'de-spatula'd'. He said he was only busting my chops, and that the mud
work was fine. I only used the mud for the seams [the small putty knife I used made it more
difficult than need be]. For the perimeters ... that was all caulking. I'm actually getting
pretty good with that ... well heck ... I've gone through cases of the stuff .... so far

Glenn, I do have one of those sanding sponges, and I will recheck those surfaces. I know
that the picture really makes it look bad, but passing my hand over it is still rather smooth.
I just want to be sure that it ALL is smooth before the next layer.

Glenn, you mentioned horizontal next layer. That is EXACTLY the conversation question
that my brother asked about [and is the way HE wanted to go]. MY big concern had more
to do with the 'natural SLOPE' we have with the floor. Going horizontal means we will have
up to 8' of slope to deal with [while keeping the side aligned with the studs]. We definitely
want overlapping seams ... but I'd sure like to hear your thought again.

I've called on the Daiken Saruru system. Can confirm that there are no US distributors

I think you have seen my future ....

My AC guys is supposed to come in tonite ... we will make a plan.

And dang .... if some guys didn't drag more of this stuff in ...

hmmm .... looks like a previous picture.

well ... more stuff to do ... more 'Mineral Ice' for the back

Thanks for kind comments, RJ!

Your build is looking pretty good!


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

horizontal. it may take a bit more cutting but it's where you need to go

_________________
Glenn

horizontal. it may take a bit more cutting but it's where you need to go

_________________
Glenn

Hi Glenn !

Thanks for the 'horizontal' confirmation. Your wish is our command!
Judging from what you've taught ... I'll infer the same concept to the ceiling as well.


The next issue is the door. In particular, trying to find 'sheet lead'. I have been to several
supplies from masonry to plumbing to the big box stores. I've talked with business 'friends' in
the masonry business [as mentioned in Rods book], and they tell me they don't use it, and
can't think of a reason they would need to About the closest material I did see was a
roll of 16oz copper flashing. It DID have some density to it ... but I was told that it is only
about a 1lb/sq ft. I have my doubts about copper, with its' sonic properties ... they make
cymbals and bells from it [brass].

I have run out of most leads on this. I talk with a friend of mine who does work on cars, and
he mentioned something like 'DynaMat'. Would this be a possible substitute

Another product is called 'FATMAT FLOOR LINER'. They posted the Transmission Loss data.
http://www.fatmat.com/liners/floor/liner.html

Thanks!