John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

***EDIT*** Redirect to New design with no isolation

Greetings from Minnesota! I’ve posted a few times but I consider this my first “real” post. I’ve been lurking and absorbing as much knowledge as possible while I design my studio. I started reading last August. I feel like I’ve got the construction techniques down and now I’m getting in to the acoustics part of the job. I’ve worked as a general contractor and carpenter and I enjoy building. Just not HVAC, electrical, plumbing and I don’t really enjoy fixing things. I have excellent math skills and enjoy physics and engineering, although I’m nowhere near being an educated engineer. I also play guitar and bass and am learning recording. I would like to operate this studio when it is finished, as well as provide consultation for studio design (if I can learn what I need to). I’ve never found a topic that blends so many awesome aspects of music and construction together, so I’m interested in doing this for a living.

The purpose of this build is to provide a recording facility capable of handling a full rock band in the live room, singer(s) in the vocal booth and a group class in the control room. It will be located in the back 1000 square feet of a music school (private and group lessons). In addition to recording, mixing and mastering, videos will be shot and edited to create content for a podcast about music with a focus on education.

Please keep in mind that I’m open to anything you suggest. If you see something wrong with any aspect of this plan, I’d love to hear about solutions / ideas.

Existing space (kind of long, but important):
The building is in St. Paul on a pretty busy road. The city is building a light rail commuter train to connect St. Paul to the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and will be passing us about 300 feet away. According to the city, the noise and vibration will only affect buildings within 125 feet of the light rail line. A few radio stations fall within that, so they are getting some isolation work done for free.

I read about 77 db with traffic and road construction outside the back door. 52 db inside the back door.

****Regarding the layout - up = north!

The south side is an alley with a great breakfast restaurant across from us. The north wall divides us from a spiritual guidance shop/center. They have occasional assemblies / small acoustic concerts upstairs and down. There is a 12" thick concrete block wall dividing the 2 properties. For the purpose of this thread, we'll call their address 777 and ours 771. The west side separates us from an auto shop. Luckily, there is a small garage between us that they use for storage. We can't actually hear any compressors or motors running from our building.

There is a window on the west wall where the vocal booth will be located. I'm planning on removing it, framing in a temporary doorway for the construction process, and then filling it with concrete block and brick masonry exterior when we get to that point.

The far north wall (control room) used to have an opening into the neighbor's building. It has been framed, drywalled and insulated. Same goes for the west wall. This recently filled opening went to the auto shop's storage garage.

The east wall of the live room is underneath a structural beam. It is 2x4 steel with 1 layer of 5/8" drywall on each side (although there is about 2' from the ceiling on the live room side that isn't covered with drywall).

The east wall of the control room is 4" concrete block, and is also underneath the structural beam.

The roof is a ballasted rubber roof (gravel holding it down). The entire roof system has been replaced at some point. The concrete walls that divide the properties (not the exterior walls) used to go all the way through the roof (parapets) but appear to have been cut off when the roof was redone. On the 771 side (at least where the studio will be built) there are 2x10 joists running east-west (sitting on the west exterior wall and one of 3 large beams that support the entire roof structure). In this area (live room, vocal booth) there is no insulation in the ceiling joist cavities, and it is covered with 3/8" drywall! I know, what were they thinking?!?!? On the 777 side (control room) the roof is 2x12 joists with insulation and 5/8" Type X drywall. The HVAC unit is above this area.

****Regarding the layout - up = north!



General Notes:
Before I get into the nitty gritty details, I’d like to discuss a few keynotes.

1. Control Room shape

I’ve been planning on mounting the monitors right in to the angled isolation walls. I could easily build a cavity that would support the speakers, be sealed and filled with insulation.

I know the angled sound lock probably looks odd, but I didn’t see any other way to meet all of the criteria. The studio owner wants to be able to look through the window into the live room from the mixing position, and there will be a group of students doing the same. I don’t want to have any doors between functional rooms without a sound lock.

Will this work? Am I overthinking it?


2. Budget

We want to have a top notch studio that will produce terrific sounding mixes. We also want to make sure that isolation is as high as we can get it without totally going overboard.

We are looking to save money anywhere possible without losing overall quality. I will be doing all of the carpentry and drywall, running audio cables, installing lighting, acoustic treatment, insulating, building windows and doors, silencers.

Subcontractors will be for concrete (wall demo, pour 2 slabs and stain), HVAC (new lined supply and return ducts), electrical (add 100 amp box, use star grounding like a hospital), drywall finishing and texturing, painting.

We’re just under 1000 square feet and with the pricing I’ve gotten so far, we’re just over $100,000 (only figured $2500 for acoustic treatment). The HVAC budget proposal was $28,000 so I’d like to address that and see if there’s anything we can do to cut there.


3. HVAC / Silencers

We have a 16”x16” supply trunk running the length of the control room, then a 10” round duct tees off of that and runs about ¾ of the live room. There is no ducting for return air, the rooftop unit sucks it right in at the ceiling.

I told our HVAC designer that we needed high volume and low velocity. He thought it would be really tough to get down to 100 fpm. He came up with a 24”x14” supply trunk to replace the 16”x16” and a 16”x12” running through the live room, tapering down to a 12”x12” at the vocal booth. Return ducts would be the same size.

The rooftop unit provides air to the studio, as well as the office/hallway/bathroom area (east of control room). There will also be ducts in the rear entry area (he said it made it easier to balance the load).

The designer scoped out 5 - 8” supply ducts for the control room, 6 - 8” for the live room, 1 - 10” for the vocal booth, and 6” ducts for the non-studio areas.

Do I really need to build a silencer for every single one of those ducts, as well as the returns? Is it feasible to skip the silencers and put thicker lining in? More 90 degree bends would be more expensive, but if it’s less than building 25 or so silencers, it would be worth it.



Okay, those are the 3 biggest issues to me right now. Here’s the rest of the project:

Design notes:

From what I understand, RT60 times of .3 (control) and .7 (live, booth) would work well for our application. I haven’t priced out building my own absorption, but I have to imagine it would be cheaper than buying everything pre-made.

I’m thinking custom tri-corner absorbers at all trihedral corners first. 703 panels along entire ceiling perimeter(s). Slot resonators/absorbers where necessary upon testing the isolated rooms.

Control room - Hangers behind treatment walls in back. 703 panels at first reflection points (cloud over mix position). If I end up able to soffit mount the monitors inside the isolated room (not in the isolation wall), I’d put hangers underneath. Floor will be laminate over concrete with ⅛” pad.

Live / booth - I prefer to stick with wood and fiberglass for materials, so the stone and other exotic treatments won’t be an option. I assume that most of the diffusion will be happening in the live room, so I’d like to get a handle on slots using John’s Helmholtz spreadsheet. Floors will be stained and sealed poured concrete.

I’ve been talking with a local guy from The Soundproofing Company and he likes the methods of construction in my design. He said they just built a studio in New Orleans using steel framing with 2 layers ⅝” drywall, green glue and insulation, as well as the concrete floors. They achieved 68 db of isolation. If we could do that, I’d be extremely happy. For my first build, I’ll shoot for 60. By using a 4” gap between rooms, and a 12” minimum gap between the block walls and studio walls, I hope it will do it. STC 59 for walls of this type (but with no green glue and small air gaps) leads me to believe that my plan will increase that number.

Gear:
Toft ATB24 with Argosy console. Focal Twin 6be monitors (if we soffit mount). 27” iMac. Not sure about converters yet.

City / Permits:
St. Paul is very strict in general. We are in a historical district, and we may have to go through a historical panel for approval to fill in the window opening on the back of the building. That could delay the start of the project by a month. We will be limited by fire code as to what type of materials we can add to the building. As far as I can tell, we are a Type III-B building with a Class B occupancy rating. When we met with the city, I'm pretty sure they had us listed as a Type III-A, but looking at the exposed steel columns and beams, I'm guessing there was a project that was demo'd but never finished.

Wall removal / property line:
This is a goofy part of the property. If you look at the sketchup, with the layer "Demo" on, you'll see a concrete block wall with an opening 12' x 8'. This USED TO divide 771 and 777. Apparently over the years this area (to the north of our main structure) became part of 771. It's in the way of us running new ductwork and having legal accessibility (mainly a fire exit from the control room) so it will be removed. Luckily, there is a concrete pilaster in-line with this wall that the beam sits on. The engineer approved removal of the wall as long as we leave the pilaster alone.



HVAC duct replacement:
There is a 3.5 ton rooftop unit that sits atop the roof over the proposed control room. It has to heat and cool the entire studio area, as well as the hallway, office and bathroom. The main (school) part of the building has its own 3.5 ton rooftop unit, and all of the ductwork is separate. The plan is to use the rooftop unit and run new ductwork. I've been working with an HVAC designer. Each supply and return inlet/outlet will have its own silencer (so says the plan as of right now). This includes the hallway/office/bathroom area. I would like to alter the plan to cut the number of silencers down (to zero if possible!). The hallway/office/bathroom isn't critical to isolate, but I'd like to at least address them so we don't get anything leaking IN to the studio. I'll utilize the existing ceiling to hang the silencers so they're 100% decoupled from the studio ceiling and walls. There won't be much room between the 2 ceiling leafs. About 16-18".

Concrete:
- The control room area's floor is an old engineered concrete slab. It extends from the west (rear) wall well into the building, but ALL on the 777 side. It is much thicker than the new slabs will be.
- I'd like to pour isolated slabs for the live room and vocal booth. We've got 4 1/2" to work with to match the height of the existing control room floor, and I'm leaning toward pouring the full 4 1/2" with just concrete. It will be supported by the existing 3 1/2" x 12 7/8" douglas fir + 11/16" tongue and groove floor. We've consulted with an engineering firm and they have approved this. 4"-5" gap between slabs, filled with rockwool. Reinforced with rebar.
-Removal of existing concrete wall as described previously.

Framing:
- Building a "room inside a room". Using 18 gauge 3 5/8" steel studs 24" on center. 18 gauge 6" steel joists for the ceiling, also 24" on center. I’d like to maintain an minimum of 12” air gap between the new walls and the concrete block outer leaf. I'm wondering whether it's worth putting a strip of neoprene between the bottom channel and the concrete slab. Acoustic caulk on both sides of the neoprene. Ceiling will have bridging wherever I can fit it. I'm hoping for 8' on center. We'll see how the ductwork and silencers lay out.
- The area where the supply outlet and return inlet are on the rooftop unit will be framed with girders to accommodate the ductwork where it wraps underneath the beam. I will lose some ceiling height here, and plan on making it symmetrical since it is in the control room.
- All electrical and audio cable boxes/protrusions will be framed around, sealed from behind with plywood and sealed with acoustic caulk.

Electrical:
- We have a 200 amp 3 phase panel powering the whole building. We'll likely install a 100 amp panel just for the studio. There will also be a separate ground panel/box.
- Using the "Star" grounding system, or, as my electrician said, "wiring it like a hospital". All outlets will be on separate breakers from the lighting. HVAC units are on the main 3 phase panel.
- I'm leaning toward track lighting so we can run just a wire and mounting screws through the ceiling drywall, rather than installing electrical boxes.

Drywall:
- 2 layers 5/8" drywall on all ceilings and walls. Green glue between. No resilient channel, just screwed right to the steel studs/joists.
- Corners will receive foam backer rod and acoustic caulk.
- Got a quote on Certainteed Silent FX drywall. Sounds interesting but budget (and my gut) tells me to go with 2 layers of 5/8" and GG

Windows:
- Both windows in the live room will have 2 lites of laminated glass, one 3/8" and one 5/16". Using Rod's standard window design (modified to fit this situation as needed). Jambs will be made from 1 3/4"x14" LVL to accomodate the gap between the 2 leafs.

Doors:
- I prefer super doors but budget calls for the double door design. However, I'm pretty sure the city will have an issue with fire exit if the doors don't all swing toward the rear exit of the building.
- Mahogany door slabs with additional plywood and sheet lead per Rod's book. I'll be using 14” LVL to make door jambs as well. Custom fabrication of hinges, seals, drop seals, closers.
- Since we have 2 sound locks dividing the booth, live room and control room from the rest of the building, we'll probably install deadbolts in the outermost doors. Doors that won't affect isolation between studio rooms (I hope????).
- Heavy duty continuous hinges to support the extremely heavy “super” lead-lined door.
- Commercial grade LCN door closers


Questions:

Should I remove the framing, drywall and insulation from the 2 openings in the concrete block walls and fill them with block? Will it really be a big deal if I leave them alone?



Live room east wall - should I remove the drywall and add a layer to the other side? It wouldn’t be easy because there are lesson rooms on the other side. Adding drywall could be done at any time, so the priority is whether or not to remove the layer on the studio side.

Am I on the right track???

Thanks for reading!
Joel

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

welcome! (again )
my thinking would be to strip all the existing drywall/frame assemblies out except maybe the steel frame so you can get maximum space all around and don't risk building over something that might give you less isolation. if you are using sound locks on all rooms, you don't really need super doors, just good heavy sealing doors as the air gap afforded by the sound lock provides the isolation except in cases where you open the doors while you have the rooms blasting (which defeats the purpose of the air lock anyways...)

on the CR design - you mean the owner wants to see out the window into the live room over the mix console versus turning sideways (which would actually give you more options for visibility into the room especially for classroom purposes...) but either way the shape won't cut it, you are wasting way too much space. instead, focus on really good rectangular isolation rooms - maybe re-think the hallway - dual air lock situation - maybe the large air lock by the live room and vox booth is really all you need and a bit more walking from the CR to the air lock might suffice from a construction standpoint as well as keeping the next generation healthy...

on the HVAC, each penetration would require something to stop the sound - large holes are a problem. maybe consider soffits in the rooms and a flex duct drop from each of the mains to hard ducts in the soffits in each room and a single baffle box on each - a total of 6 or so (1 per supply and 1 per return assuming 3 rooms + air lock).

_________________
Glenn

Sounds good to me. I'm going to remove the framing in the sound lock area next to the booth for sure, as well as the drywall on the east wall. As long as the city doesn't require the main roof assembly to be fire rated (and instead measures it by the assembly of the studio ceiling), I should be able to remove the drywall on the lid as well. I'd be able to add R30 between the 2x10 joists in the LR and booth, and the ballasted roof would be an excellent massive outer leaf!

Again, great news! I'll leave the rectangular sound lock alone and cancel the lead. There's a couple thousand bucks off of the budget. If I wipe out the control room and angled sound lock and instead build a regular rectangular room with 2 doors in that corner (southeast corner of CR), would I want to use 2 super doors there?

Well put! Using all of the space for the CR will give us more options. I like the idea of having the doors at the back of the control room so soffit mounting and treatment is even on both sides of the mix position. I'll edit the sketchup file to have the CR facing west.

I'm definitely up for cutting down (hehe) the number of ducts in the design. By rotating the CR to face west we'll have a soffit at the front of the room (no matter what because of the beam). May as well take advantage of it. I'm picturing an angled false ceiling hiding absorption and covering up the ugly soffit. For the back (east side) of the CR I could likely hang the duct above the isolation ceiling so it's hidden, and hang the silencer from the existing ceiling. So, I'd basically have supply air come in through one duct at each east wall (centered for each room) and return air at the west walls (centered for each room)? Would building a soffit containing the duct (surrounded by insulation) and silencer be the best way to go? Instead of building them inside the room, could I build soffits above the ceiling joists? I'll have to double check, but I believe they would fit.

Here's our supply and return ducting plan. I'm attaching the PDF in case you can't read the jpg. These numbers didn't account for silencers, instead our designer balanced the system with grilles and diffusers. He hasn't done much with studios and he did this for free, so I basically need to take it from here. I'm not totally grasping HVAC yet (but I understand what $28,000 means!) I will get to work on re-drawing the control room before I get into anything else. Also re-reading Carsten's thread for HVAC.

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

***Am I doing this right?***

HVAC notes using engineeringtoolbox.com calculator:

This started to make sense today. If I did this correctly, it looks as if our design has the correct rectangular ducts. The only change that needs to be made is in the branches. I believe we just need to increase the duct sizes to what I've specified below. These velocities will be cut in half by the silencers.

I'd rather have a handful of jumbo silencers than 25 smaller ones. Instead of putting the supply and return grilles in the middle of the room, on opposite sides, I think I'd be better off with the supply toward one corner of the room and the return in the opposite corner, so the air is always moving toward the air handler.

1600 cfm 3.5 ton Carrier 48TJE005 rooftop
9.93 air changes / hour (using total finished interior room dimensions)
900 fpm Current velocity in 16x16 main supply duct (need to replace)

Analyzing our design for new ductwork:
1600 cfm total = 24"x14" main ducts = 685.71 fpm.

Branches off of main supply:
499 cfm to control room = 16"x12" = 375 fpm (24"x16" silencer outlet / grille) 188 fpm into CR
127 cfm to office = 8" round = 364 fpm (if needed: 14"x8" silencer outlet / grille) 182 fpm into office
188 cfm to hallway, closet, bathroom = 8" round = 539 fpm (not studio rooms)

Remaining air (%'s based on ratio V(room)/V(total))
32.85% of the total cfm needs to go to the live room. 7.01% to the booth. 4.21% to the air lock. 5.1% to the back hallway. (49.16% of 1600 cfm)

787 cfm for the first intersecting duct (over live room)- 16"x12" duct gives 590 fpm.

526 cfm for live room = 16"x12" duct = 395 fpm (24"x16" silencer outlet / grille) 198 fpm into CR

261 cfm left for the booth, air lock and back hallway. Tapering down to a 12"x12" duct gives 261 fpm.

112 cfm for booth - 10" round - 205 fpm (16"x10" silencer outlet / grille) 103 fpm into booth
67 cfm for air lock - 8" round - 193 fpm (14"x8" silencer outlet / grille) 97 fpm into air lock
82 cfm back hallway - 6" round - 418 fpm (not a studio room)

I think I got it! At least I feel good about it for tonight, haha.

***Heatload estimate totals 32,164 Btu / Hr. If the rooftop unit is too big, I guess we'll just have to get more gear and play harder!***

Questions:
- For the booth and air lock, do I even need silencers? If those #'s are correct, I think we'd be in good shape. 2 for CR, 2 for LR and call it a day? Or do I need a silencer at every single duct on the system, regardless of whether it's in a studio room?

- Silencer for returns - Should the inlet/grille match the size of the supply? In other words, should the silencers for each room be exactly the same size (1 supply, 1 return), just reversed in use?

- The HVAC designer called for a 6" duct in the rear exit area. There's an electrical panel, an exterior door, and a stairway going down to a 2000 SF+ area. Right now, there is no direct ventilation in that area. Is there any reason to have a duct there?

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

***Readings from Radio Shack Sound Level Meter***

With cooling system running (studio area) and a couple of lessons in progress (main school area):
85 db directly under return (right under furnace) with air blowing on meter
76 db at same height, but to the side of the return (no air blowing on meter)
77 db next to supply main duct, right where it connects to unit
70 db at mix position in proposed control room
58 db at center of proposed live room
57 db at center of proposed isolation booth
60 db in hallway
57 db in office with door closed

With the rooftop unit shut off, all of the readings were under 50 db, as they didn't show up on the meter.

I'm going to take another look at the McQuay International HVAC Acoustic Fundamentals to see if I can calculate what the sound levels will be at with finished ductwork, and then with finished walls. I believe that these numbers are manageable with proper isolation of the ducts. I can't wait to *not* hear it!

Control room framing / soffits / silencer design is almost done, will post ASAP. This is by far the toughest room to figure out!!!

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

***Control Room Update***
*** I will delete old sketchup files as I upload new ones, and I'll try to keep JPEGs to a minimum.
*** New issues to check out:
- Treating first reflections / window location.
- Treating corner with the 2 doors (bass trap built into back wall would be symmetrical if it wasn't for the doors).
- Ceiling space between the 2 soffits - fill 100% with cloud and lighting?

HVAC note - Supply is purple, return is green, silencers are brown

- Maximized space in the CR, had to angle wall adjacent to LR to avoid steel column

- Created soffits in front and back of CR. Front has main ducts under the beam, back has branch ducts under the beam. Silencers will be attached to the outer ceiling leaf, directly underneath the 2x12 joists.

- Tight fit up there, but I think I made it work pretty well. 2 return ducts are going up and over the supply duct (between the joists) to get to the office and hallway. If I can't do that because of code, I'll run them underneath the duct in between the CR and LR double wall. The 4 ducts for the office and hallway will NOT go through the I-beam, but rather through the holes in the concrete wall. I got lazy (don't have Sketchup Pro either) and figured this text would be good enough to explain it

Nice shot of the control room:

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

I just realized something. I should bring the long supply line up against the beam.

- I'd be able to drop the 4 ducts for the office/hallway into the soffit and under the duct and beam at the same time.
- It would make all of the runs to the supply silencers straight shots.
- The silencers would have all the room in the world to rotate.
- I can eliminate the 90 degree bend by the booth.
- No messing around running ducts into the joists of the outer ceiling.

I need a little break.

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

if you can put the main ducts up and out of the way of the interior isolation ceiling - then put a supply and return duct into each room via a silencer - flex duct to connect from main to silencer. then inside each room you can run the duct however you like without sound transfer between rooms etc. making the main ducts large enough to reduce the air velocity to under 300fpm or less, you should be able to make this pretty quiet.

on the CR shape - compensate for the shape to make it symmetrical (as much as possible).

if you're going to put a door from the CR directly onto the hallway - put a super door there. on the air lock by the LR and booth, just the heavy doors.

_________________
Glenn

First off, thanks for the drawing and reply, Glenn. You sure do cover a lot of ground in a day on this forum.

If I'm understanding the problem with velocity in the main duct, it's because of the noise from the line source vs. hiss from the diffusers, which is why we're going to need it under 300 fpm. In other words, we'd end up hearing the air running through the main ducts (even w/ 2" internal insulation) through the drywall, and it would show up in our recordings. Since the duct isn't isolated by the double wall assembly (but between it), the STC rating of the wall doesn't even apply to the HVAC.

Sound about right?

If we're at $30K with 24"x14" ducts, 36"x22" would nearly double (guessing) the cost. I really need to get this issue taken care of so I can either move on to acoustics and more intense construction details, or (worst case scenario) scratch the studio plans all together due to cost. I would hate for that to happen. As tough as it's been to absorb everything, I'm really enjoying learning it.

-If I continue the design with ducts under 300 fpm across the board, with silencers next to them vs. underneath (to save ceiling height) will it work?

- Is coupling the silencer to the inner ceiling joists better than coupling them to the outer joists?

-If I continue the design and detail well enough that I could create mechanical, electrical and structural plans (that would be approved for a permit) from my sketchup, do I have a shot at pulling this off successfully?

- I've gotten quotes on subs, materials and gear totaling $105K. If I add $30K for bigger ducts and $15K for treatment (I only guessed $2500), is that about the only way this studio will be professional quality for what we want to do? (record albums, have classes, create videos for podcasts)

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

***Updated HVAC design info to obtain budget proposal***

1600 cfm total = 36"x22" main ducts = 290 fpm.

Branches off of main supply:
499 cfm to control room = 16"x16" = 280 fpm (32"x16" silencer outlet / grille) 140 fpm into CR
127 cfm to office = 10" round = 233 fpm (if needed: 16"x10" silencer outlet / grille) 117 fpm into office
188 cfm to hallway, closet, bathroom = 10"x10" = 271 fpm (not studio rooms)

Remaining air = 787 cfm for the first main duct reduction (over live room)- 24"x16" - 295 fpm.
Branches off of that duct:
526 cfm for live room = 16"x16" = 296 fpm (32"x16" silencer outlet / grille) 135 fpm into CR

Remaining air = 261 cfm left for the booth, air lock and back hallway (2nd main duct reduction). 12"x12" = 261 fpm.
Branches off of that duct:
112 cfm for booth - 10" round - 205 fpm (16"x10" silencer outlet / grille) 103 fpm into booth
67 cfm for air lock - 8" round - 193 fpm (14"x8" silencer outlet / grille) 97 fpm into air lock
82 cfm back hallway - 8" round - 235 fpm (not a studio room)

Just posting for reference. I really appreciate the fact that this forum exists so I can do that.

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

you could put the silencers into the room to keep the ceiling height it just take a bit more thinking to make sure the penetration is isolated. but the idea is right - as low a speed as possible - in the mains which you don't really care too much about the noise there because your silencers should take care of it... and increasing the silencer flow area to reduce the speed is good - both supply and returns...

_________________
Glenn

Silencers in the room could actually be pretty cool. We like the industrial look. For the sake of saving ceiling height, we could just treat the outside of the box. I'm brainstorming the concept of isolating penetrations. Seems pretty difficult but worth the design effort.

I submitted a budget of $150,000. I have a pretty good feeling that it will not be approved and we'll go with one of my alternate routes ($30,000 and $40,000).

The $30K plan basically just cleans the place up (patching drywall, painting, electrical, laminate flooring, lighting. We'd run a snake from the recording area to our live performance area in the basement so we could record live shows. I'd build a moveable wall / door so we could close off the 2 rooms and have 2 group classes going at once. We could treat the wall. We could have recitals in the space, using the CR as a stage. We'd utilize movable items as much as possible. Console, racks, etc would be on casters and the permanent installation of treatment would be avoided as much as possible.

John's "portable" iso booth really peaked my interest.

The $40K option does the above, but also adds in removing the concrete wall, pouring the slabs, installing new electrical with star grounding, and building 2 symmetrical walls in the CR with a sliding patio door between the CR/LR and a solid core door to the hallway. It's basically a headstart to the big build.

I will know more tomorrow.

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied

The isolation plan is a no go. We're going a different route that I think could be cooler for us.

New thread:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16036

Thanks as always for the advice again, Glenn.

_________________
-Joel
My studio threads:
Most Recent Thread - Active Design
Design With Isolation - Budget Proposal Denied