John Sayers' Design Forum

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

A World of Experience
Click Here for Information on John's Services
It is currently Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:04 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:58 am
Posts: 5
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hi everyone!

First of all this site is amazing, although I do not have a quarter of everyone's knowledge on here, it's been really inspirational to see what others are accomplishing. This is my first post here and my apologies first of all at my lack of knowledge. You'll be dealing with someone that honestly has no experience with construction.

Anyways recently my fiance and I have bought a house together I've decided to convert the family room into my project studio. Primarily intended for producing music rather than recording for people (so I do not intend on having a live room in there although I'm toying with the idea of converting a bedroom upstairs in the future into a mini live room / vocal recording room).

The room is oddly shaped with a fireplace at the upper back right corner with a giant mirror above it. Also currently it's an open family room so I will need to build a wall to separate the dining room to family room.

I'm currently living in Manchester for another year before I move back and into our new home (we're renting it out right now) and live in a townhouse style home out here. I don't "seem" to disturb my neighbors and consider my monitoring levels to be quite low so I don't imagine I will have much trouble with noise complaints when I'm back in Canada in the new home.

I hope to add more equipment in the future but right now I'm just running a PC with a midi keyboard and a pair of Dynaudio BM5A's. Once I move back to Canada though I hope to purchase a pair of Focal Twin's.

I've downloaded sketchup to try my hand at making a floorplan that will help you guys get an idea of what I had in mind for the studio. I'm not entirely sure if it is the best way to go or if I'm horribly wrong. I'll attach some photos of the empty family room as well.

Just to summarize and make it a bit easier to read.
- Location: Vancouver, Canada (Richmond to be exact)
- Monitors: Dynaudio BM5A's , hopefully Focal Twins in the future
- Things to note: There's a fireplace in the studio and the bottom wall currently has not been constructed
- Monitoring levels & neighbor disturbance levels: Not a major concern, the house is fully detached and I monitor at relatively low levels
- Goal: a well acoustically treated room for my mixdowns / productions. A comfortable atmosphere.
- Ceiling height: 9 foot
- Budget: $5000 - $8000 cdn
- DIY: Definitely not, I will probably blow something up, I'll likely hire a contractor.
- Timeframe: Not building until June 2012
Sketchup plan download: http://www.blstudios.ca/studiobuild/ben%27s%20studio%202.skp

I hope I've provided enough information to make it easy for you guys. I really appreciate the help! Also does anyone have any recommendations to people I should contact in Vancouver regarding building the studio?

Huge thanks,
Benjamin Leung


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:57 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 7459
Location: Santiago, Chile
Hi Benjamin, and Welcome! Looks like your post fell through the cracks for a while!

From what you say, it seems like isolation is not going to be a big issue for you, and you are looking more towards treatment.

The first issue I see with the current layout, is symmetry: It doesn't have any! You need to have the room very, very symmetrical from the front wall at least half way back, meaning that the left side should be a mirror image of the right side. Beyond the halfway mark (behind you, towards the back of the room) isn't so important, but the front half is critical. Both of your ears need to hear the exact same acoustics. If not, you wont have a good stereo image, and your sound stage will be distorted, in once sense or another.

What I would suggest is that you rotate the design so that the front wall is the "fireplace with the giant mirror", then build your new right hand wall at the same angle as the existing left hand wall (that's the wall you say you have to build anyway?). That wall will extend over a tiny triangular slice to the right of the fireplace, it seems, which will be lost, but that will get you good symmetry for the front half of the room. The fireplace can be turned into a really nice bass trap, probably (and you'll have to find another way of heating the room, but that's probably not a big deal). The "giant mirror" will have to go too, of course, or at east be covered with treatment.

I would start by re-arranging the room around that plan, then post your updated SketchUp so we can start figuring out basic treatment.


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:58 am
Posts: 5
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hi Stuart,

Thanks alot for taking the time to respond to my post I really appreciate your help!

I've read over your suggestions and gone back to my sketchup to move the gear to a different location. However I'm having a little bit of trouble visualizing where you are suggesting I built the wall to achieve symmetry. I've attached an updated sketchup export (with some help with photoshop). The red arrows are pointing towards potential symmetry and the red ugly triangle thingy is meant to show that corner as being blocked off or fitted with bass traps. Is this what you were suggesting?
*attachment 1*

If it is, where that red triangle is enclosing that little corner, is it possible to do something that's non destructive such as perhaps building a floor to ceiling bass trap? I think what would even be better is if I could somehow block off / cover up the fireplace with wooden slats (floor to ceiling). Would that be a potentially good move to do? (Perhaps something that I could somewhat easily take away with minimal damage in the future if I were to resell the house as the fireplace is probably a good selling point. I suppose the reason behind doing this is purely aesthetic from my point of view as I think having that fireplace in the studio kind of makes it look... weird.
*attachment 2*

The wall that needs to be built to enclose the family room is at the bottom of the diagram, the one labeled as (135")


Thanks again so very much for taking the time to aid me in this!

Many thanks,
Ben


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:05 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Trinidad West Indies
Just adding my 2 cents.I am NOT an expert or anywhere near. The angles of the side walls with eht fireplace are not the same according to my measurements on your sketchup. I think that your original layout could work if you add the wall in yellow that I have added, I was thinking along the lines of a moveable GOBO or whatever the correct terminology is,or making 2 smaller units and mount them on hinges from the walls along the design concepts as an inside out wall.Since you do not have an existing wall opposite to this panel,you can build an inside out wall there as well.that way you can save some space.
I don't know what the experts may think,guys?

Shane


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:56 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 7459
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
and the red ugly triangle thingy is meant to show that corner as being blocked off or fitted with bass traps. Is this what you were suggesting?
Yup, that's the idea, but it isn't clear form the diagram if the right wall and left wall are at the same angle. If your diagram is accurate, then the right wall seems to be at 42.2°, while the left is at 48°. So to get symmetry, you'd either have to do this:

Attachment:
Ben-v1-b.png


(The green line represents where you'd need to build the wall at the same angle as on the left).


Or you'd need to do this:


Attachment:
Ben-v2-b.png

Once again, the green lines are where you'd need to build walls, if you wanted precise symmetry.

On the second one, I also put in some yellow lines, as a suggestion as to where you might want to build that new wall+door. You could do it the way you show, but there might be first order reflections coming from the left speaker, bouncing off the glass back at your head form behind. So I'd suggest that you fiddle around to find the best angle/position for that wall to avoid that, or maybe just plan on building a gobo on wheels that you can roll in front of the glass for critical listening.

In any event, the "ugly red triangle thingy" area really needs to be sealed off: just stuffing it with wool is not going to give you acoustic symmetry, since there is no place on the left where you could do the same.

Regarding the fireplace: Is that a wood-burning thing, or a gas thing? You might be able to stuff it with wool and then put a cloth screen on a frame in front of it to hide it, or just build an absorber to fit over it (maybe 4" of 703 or rockwool in a frame). You could do the same with the mirror: build a cloth-covered absorber to put over it. That way, if you ever do move out, you can just take down the absorbers and the fireplace and mirror will be back the way they are now.

Quote:
is it possible to do something that's non destructive such as perhaps building a floor to ceiling bass trap?
A bass trap would be nice, but I wouldn't do that, due to the symmetry issue: there's o way you can do the same on the left.

Quote:
I think what would even be better is if I could somehow block off
That would be my approach for the "red ugly triangle thingy". Block it off. You might even want to consider making it some form of storage: a mic closet comes to mind.... :)

Quote:
this is purely aesthetic from my point of view as I think having that fireplace in the studio kind of makes it look... weird.
Yup! Agreed! Nice in a living room, rather strange in a studio!


- Stuart -


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:58 am
Posts: 5
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Thanks for the suggestions Stuart & Shane,

Stuart
First of all a mic closet sounds like an awesome idea! Thank for clearing up the fact that a simple bass trap won't help with the symmetry. I honestly thought it would so it's good to get the knowledge that it isn't actually a solution towards symmetry.

I've attached a diagram modification of one of the ones you've done. Would it work if I did something like this (and therefore at the same time blocking the fireplace.) Also just to clarify about these walls that I'm building. Would the slot resonator walls work or are we talking about building a regular wall first to achieve symmetry before the absorption?


In regards to Shane's design, would that work in your opinion? Also do the two walls (the moveable wall + wall with door) have to be the same kind of construction? (even if they are symmetrical, if they aren't constructed with the same materials would that have a negative effect?)


Thanks again for your help guys I really appreciate it. It's not the most ideal room but the inlaws and fiance don't really want me using one of the upstairs bedrooms since they'd rather I keep my business on the main floor (which makes sense but leaves me with a nightmare of a room to sort out as the studio). I'm going to have a chat with them some more and either...
A. Try to convince them that doing the whole family room build (everything from the wall and sliding door that doesn't exist at the moment to sorting out the acoustics) is going to cost an exceedingly higher amount than converting one of rectangular shaped spare bedrooms upstairs.
B. Put my foot down and explain that it's my home at the end of the day (with potential consequences haha).


Anyways if possible, the family room still is the #1 choice but... is it a lost cause?

Many thanks and have a great week!
Ben


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:31 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:55 am
Posts: 4586
Location: Old Tappan, NJ USA
that is looking better - are you adding that angled back wall (will need a lot of treatment) or replacing it with the squared out wall (better)

_________________
Glenn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:58 am
Posts: 5
Location: Vancouver, Canada
gullfo wrote:
that is looking better - are you adding that angled back wall (will need a lot of treatment) or replacing it with the squared out wall (better)


Unfortunately it would have to be the angled back wall (with sliding door). I forgot to erase the yellow suggestion wall Stuart drew for me. The reason why I'd have to do the angled back wall is that beyond that point is the dining room & kitchen and if I added the squared wall it would jut out into the dining room which would look awkward and block the patio doors leading into the backyard.

On the bright side, I just had a chat with her about the potential high costs of converting the family room as opposed to one of the spare bedrooms and she's starting to see where I'm coming from which is fantastic. Fingers crossed and I'll keep u guys updated with news on that.


Many thanks again for everyone's help, you guys are incredible!
Ben


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:02 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 7459
Location: Santiago, Chile
If you have to angle that back wall, it probably would not be a good idea to go with the sliding glass doors: Like Glenn said, that wall is going to need a whole lot of treatment, so you are going to end up covering most of the glass anyway! Besides, sliding glass doors of the type you need for a studio are not cheap at all: what you save by NOT buying it could be spent on a nice mic! (Or on the treatment for the wall... :) )

- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:58 am
Posts: 5
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Soundman2020 wrote:
If you have to angle that back wall, it probably would not be a good idea to go with the sliding glass doors: Like Glenn said, that wall is going to need a whole lot of treatment, so you are going to end up covering most of the glass anyway! Besides, sliding glass doors of the type you need for a studio are not cheap at all: what you save by NOT buying it could be spent on a nice mic! (Or on the treatment for the wall... :) )

- Stuart -


Ah good point! That'll save me a bit of money that I can splurge towards gear haha :) Thanks Stuart!


On a positive note I think I'm able to use one of the spare bedrooms now which is fantastic since it's not funky shaped. I'll keep you guys posted as I still need to convince my fiance's mom that I NEED to use one of the spare bedrooms upstairs as she isn't too fond of the idea of clients going upstairs in my home (fair point).

Thanks again for everyone's help, really appreciate it!
Ben


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group