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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:35 am 
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Jeez man, that builder seems like a real jerk. I do construction for a living and thrre is NO WAY that we could pull anything like that and stay in business. I really hope your lawyer can find a way to stick it to them when its all said and done, and I hope you'll also be picky as can be come punch list time. They can flex their muscles all they want, but at the end of the day, you're the man who writes the check so they better keep you happy. I really hope it all turns out well for you. And congratulations on the new gig. Thats great news!


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 11:26 am 
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JasonFoi wrote:
Jeez man, that builder seems like a real jerk. I do construction for a living and thrre is NO WAY that we could pull anything like that and stay in business. I really hope your lawyer can find a way to stick it to them when its all said and done, and I hope you'll also be picky as can be come punch list time. They can flex their muscles all they want, but at the end of the day, you're the man who writes the check so they better keep you happy. I really hope it all turns out well for you. And congratulations on the new gig. Thats great news!
Couldn't agree more! Absolutely. I have NEVER heard of a situation like this before. It's so strange.

I would also be reeeeaaaallll slow about writing the final cheque... call in plenty of independent experts to inspect everything, and document it carefully, and look for every last code violation they can find.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:13 am 
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Hello friends!

Well, things are moving forward. There have been things I've fought for and lost. And other battles I've won. Ultimately, things SHOULD work out in the end.

The HVAC guys did a decent job with my joist spaces:
Space 1 - They ran a 6" supply duct to my control room (obviously I will replace it, but they did leave me the joist!) It should be an 10"!
Space 2 - The dumb plumbers decided my precious joist space should be used for running a bunch of water lines. Luckily, they moved them for me. Also, the electricians ran 3 wires through it. I also made them move those. Then, I covered the two big holes from the plumbers in the floor above that joist space.
Space 3 - They did run the basement return air through it. So I MIGHT be able to situate a return silencer through it. They did run another 6" supply duct down a different joist space. It should be an 8"!
Space 4 - This is a space I needed to run conduit from my basement out to my garage. They ran a duct through it, but placed it such that my conduit fits in with it. So that's great!
Space 5 - They ran HRV flex through it, but I should be able to re-route that and bring it back around. More unnecessary work for me, but hey, it's possible.

So regarding my joists, worst case scenario, I will have to give up on Space 3 and build silencers in joists. In order to double the cross sectional area of the boxes, it looks like I will have to basically split an 8" RD duct into 3 4 " ducts down their own joists and have both leaf boxes in there. So a total of 6. The issue is, this means I need 4 joist spaces. My 4th one has some stuff down it. So I'm not sure how I'll make that work. It's possible in my head, I think. Here's a pic: (the far left "empty" looking one actually has some water lines and crap for our island in it)
Attachment:
image3.jpeg

Also in the basement:
- I'm glad I beefed up the rim board when I did because they sprayed spray foam type insulation all around it. It would have been impossible to get that crap off.
- They cut 2 big holes in the rim board for the HRV. I'll have to box all that in.
- I asked them to use wood instead of steel studs for the frost wall. That will allow me to cut and modify it as possible (fixing/boxing the rim board holes)
- The HVAC guys did a good job overall, but they screwed me. Here's how. I talked to them before and said I would like to make sure I have a variable speed furnace and I gave them the specs for my basement air needs. Hoping they would make sure the furnace would sufficiently handle the house and my spaces. But, since communication was basically cut off due to our builder, they put in their standard run of the mill bargain furnace. A single speed 80,000 BTU unit. Well, I went and ran a thermostat wire to our second floor. That would allow me to re-work any duct work they did in the basement to allow for zoning the place. In other words, being able to properly control the air in my CR and ISO room. From what I understand, zoning with a single stage furnace is basically silly. But I can't afford to replace a brand new furnace and duct work. I'm not sure how I'm going to work this into the budget.
Attachment:
image1.jpeg

I spent a few days going into the house (I made some arrangements so I was allowed thank goodness) and I put in 10 bags of Rockwool Safe n Sound around every bathroom, the laundry room, and below the 2nd floor drains and laundry (so in the ceiling joists of the main floor). I hate hearing people shower above me. So hopefully it helps some.
Other screw ups:
- Electricians cut a 4" hole and a small other one on the front of my garage where they put the lights in the wrong spot, then moved over and put them in the right spot. I had the builder fill them. But they used Green Glue Compound around it. No backing. Glued and screwed 2 layers of 3/4" OSB. I just took notes and pics so I will remember to yank that out from the inside and fix it when it comes time to build that room.
- Insulation was installed before I had the chance to build and install boxes around the exterior garage wall outlet penetrations. Again, not a big deal as I will be yanking all of it out eventually anyway. Just would prefer to do some little crap like that now so I have less to do later.
- A 2ft jut out in the basement had the frost wall installed 9" away from the foundation. According to my ray tracing, that will screw me up, so I'm making them move it to the standard 8".
- Not SUPER studio related, but for the stairs to my basement, they framed a 2x8 wall floor to ceiling. That made for a narrow hallway and poor access for moving supplies or furniture down. So I made them put in a 2x4 wall where I can install my own railing. Sadly, there's some glue on the floor now. I told them to try and get that off so I don't have to fight with it.
- There were other things throughout the house, but no point in mentioning them here.
Here's the house a few days ago.
Attachment:
image2.jpeg

Here's the basement 3 days ago:
Attachment:
image4.jpeg

I finally got the LVL stud delivered. Luckily I got a friend to help me get it into the basement. It was like 30 degrees celsius out and this stuff is heavy and there was quite a bit of it. It was a challenge trying to get them into the basement with lots of them being 20 feet long. I have no windows in the basement so we had a tiny little slit we had to angle them down through.
Here's the basement 2 days ago after we got the LVL down.
Attachment:
image5.jpeg

I also gave the electricians my studio sub panel to install on the other side of the house (where the main panel was supposed to be) and told them to install another small sub panel for the A/C and mini-split to run off of. The deal is, since they put my main electrical panel on the wrong side of the house, that they will wire in these new panels for free.
Anyway, that's it for now. They're supposed to start drywalling today. I buddied up with the guy doing the siding, so hopefully he does an extra good job for me.
I've taken more measurements and pics in the basement, so I can start Sketching Up the new silencer box designs and such.
Thanks for the support everyone!

Update: I measured the height of the basement now that the slab is poured and I'm pumped because it is 9'10" +/- 1/16" everywhere. Initially I was told it would only be 9"8 1/2". So hey, it's a small increase, but as you all can understand, that extra 1 1/2" is HUGE to us (that's what she said).


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Good news update:

I texted the HVAC dude I initially met up with and told him how bummed I was that he installed a single speed 80,000 BTU furnace even though I had told him that I want a variable speed one, and one that is big enough to handle the extra CFM I'll need for my spaces. Remember, he has been ignoring my texts and calls for a while (I'm sure the builder told him to ignore me and have any communication go through her). In this text, I said "please please respond".

He did! He said that the furnace in there right now is owned by the builder and is temporary just for this building stage. He will put in whatever one I want come HVAC final. I also mentioned that I need a 10" and 8" for my CR and ISO room plus at least a 4" for the hallway. He suggested that I run a designated HRV for my rooms which I think is smart. I just have a lot of designing to do and get some assistance from my HVAC friend. With my in floor heating, I'm sure I probably never need to run from the actual furnace. I'll probably only ever need to get heat from the HRV. Then for cooling, the motorized dampers will route the A/C to my room.

So yeah, I'm feeling so much relief right now. I'm sure I'll have to pay for an upgraded furnace, but if so, I'll pay him directly and avoid the 10 fold margin the builder makes.

Greg

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:11 pm 
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I'm leaving for Disney Land in California in 2 days, so I tried to get some design stuff done before hand so it wouldn't be eating at me the whole trip. So, in case I don't get anything done on it tomorrow, here are some pics.
I measured and drew up the joists over the ISO room. I really should have taken a few more minutes and measured the ones in the middle of the CR. But I guess I'll do that later. Anyway, here it is:
Attachment:
ISO Room Ceiling Joists.jpg

I also just super quickly put place holder duct images:
Attachment:
Basement HVAC Smaller.jpg

I'm missing at least 1 at the bottom of the stairs that I don't have a picture of, so I don't know where it goes. Also, I'm obviously missing plumbing and central vac pipe. There is next to none over top of my rooms thank goodness. Lastly, I haven't drawn in the HRV flex duct at all. Anyway, as you can see, my previous designs are not going to work exactly as planned. And as mentioned before, I think I'm going to zone the house which means replacing that main supply trunk with 2 (one for each floor) and then just run my 10" and 8" ducts via an HRV set up. My HVAC friend will draw that all up for me so I don't mess anything up.
Well, it's officially a start with real life measurements. No more day dreaming about how rough ins will be run or anything.

Greg


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Greg,

Have fun in Disneyland! I have been following your thread and I can't believe what you have had to deal with. Looks like it is getting a bit better. :D

I look forward seeing your future progress!

Howie


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:06 am 
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Hey guys! LA was a great trip with great weather. The kids really enjoyed themselves. The flight with them was... crazy.

Anyway. They are pretty much done drywalling the house. Legally, they have to put up drywall in the garage and tape it for fire protection. They actually used 5/8" drywall which is cool, other than the fact that I'm sure I paid out the ass for it. As you know, I will have to pull all of it off, fix some of the screw up areas in the outer leaf, then build my inner leaf. Hoping I can salvage some of this 5/8" to use for modules in between the rafter joists. You might be wondering what I mean here.

For the garage, in order to save as much height as possible, my plan is to build the outer leaf similar to inside out design. I'll build modules (inside out style) that I will stuff in between the rafter joists. That will be my outer leaf. It will allow a decent gap between my inner and outer leaf. Then, my inner leaf ceiling will be full-bore inside out style.

The garage will heat and cool via a mini split. For my fresh air, I will hopefully be able to fit all the silencers and duct work in the attic. Will probably try and save heat or cold air by implementing an HRV as well.

Attachment:
35102483_489511114799865_2648121129264218112_o.jpg


Question for you all! ---------------
If I only need between 25-30% fresh air, and I'm only implementing duct work/silencers for this air (since the heat and AC is from a mini split), my duct work and such should only be sized so that it will only move 25-30% of what my mini split is spitting out right?

Greg

ps I have dreams about busting up the garage slab and digging down another 4-8 feet so I have a crazy tall ceiling. I don't know if it would be legal and it would cost a fortune I'm sure. Imagine though ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Hey guys. I finally have had some time to work on my design further. I decided to tackle my window design before my soffits.

Here is what I've come up with so far:
Attachment:
Window Frames 1200.jpg

My design so far is as follows:
12mm tempered glass. I will try and get acoustic PVB if it's available and affordable. I reached out a glazier acquaintance for some assistance to confirm my glass knowledge. I solidified the butyl tape sizes as well as the setting block sizes that were available at the store. The setting block is advertised as having a durometer rating of 80. Using the Sorbothane calculator, I determined one under each corner of my glass at a length of ~0.84" will give me a natural frequency of 20.4Hz around 20% deflection. I am unable to even guess what the extra weight or pressure from the top of the window will be once squeezed under the top setting blocks. I typed in an extra 5 pounds per pad and the deflection was still right around 20% so hopefully this will work out ok. I can always add a little bit or remove some if need be. I suppose I can measure it with a micrometer during the install if I'm that picky.

I decided (after looking at the reflection in my phone when the screen was turned off) to angle the control room window by 5 degrees. The build will be a thousand times more difficult, but I think it will be worth it to be able to look up at the glass and only see my ISO room in the glass. Tilting the glass only added ~1/8" length. I'm pretty sure the guy told me he cuts the glass out of 4'x8' sheets, so I hope there won't be a problem with me giving him a specific size for each.

Speaking of glass size, I figured I would make the angle of visibility better by having the ISO room window larger than the control room. The width of my front wall opening has basically been determined by my ray tracing and me trying to maintain large baffles. Using some SketchUp views, I figured out the angles it would take for me to pretty much see the one corner of the ISO room. And that was that.

The glass sizes so far are:
CR: 3' 1/8" x5' 5 7/8"
ISO: 3' x 6'

Anyway, that's it so far. Figuring all of this out and adjusting already drawn components in Sketchup took way longer than it should have.

The other thing I'm going to try and learn/figure out is static pressure calculations. I have TWO friends who are HVAC journeymen and I asked them if they knew how to figure out what the static pressure of my system would be and they said "I have no clue how to figure that out. You will probably have to pay an engineer to figure that out for you." Anyway, I found an excel spreadsheet where you can type in your duct sizes, lengths, and how many turns at certain angles you have. It could be a lot of tinkering to type in the silencer boxes, but should be worth it to make sure I don't have a fan that will stall out. If anyone has any insight on this, please advise. This is one topic I haven't been able to find anything on using the search feature of the forum. It is often warned to "make sure you calculate your static pressure", but never told how to do it.

I'm excited to play around with a speaker mounting method I've been thinking about for 6 months. No clue if I can make it come to fruition, but yeah. Also, I have been wondering forever how I can properly use my couch riser as an acoustic treatment device. I've read tons on forums and I may have a solution. No real math to it though so we'll see if I can dig some more. It seems you just need to have big holes in the front lip of it with a ton between all of your cavities. So much to do with so little time to do it.

Greg


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Quote:
I decided to tackle my window design before my soffits.
I noticed that you are tilting the glass on the CR side. Are you aware that will reduce isolation?

Quote:
12mm tempered glass.
Why only tempered, not laminated? 12mm tempered isn't going to get you a lot of isolation. What ate the details of the leaf itself?

Quote:
I will try and get acoustic PVB
If you are only going with tempered glass, not laminated, then where would you put the PVB?

Quote:
The setting block is advertised as having a durometer rating of 80.
What scale? It is unlikely to be the same as Sorbothane...


Quote:
Speaking of glass size, I figured I would make the angle of visibility better by having the ISO room window larger than the control room.
:thu: I often do that. It's very much worthwhile.

Quote:
Also, I have been wondering forever how I can properly use my couch riser as an acoustic treatment device.
I often do that too! Studio Three, for example. The entire rear floor is a tuned device. Works fine. I just did another one for a customer in New Orleans, and he loves it. Solved some issues for him quite well. After he completed it, he sent me this comment: " my ears were definitely hearing it playing back some refs; I am now able to "hear into" the ref mixes like never before and dissect them. It is truly impressive and fulfilling because this has been my motive and goal with this whole project, and I am now hearing it finally manifest ! It makes me realize that I have wasted a lot of time for too many years playing a guessing game with my mixing. "

Here's what it looks like (no finish flooring on it yet):

Attachment:
Stv-NO-USA-S121-Sofa-Riser-Done.jpg


I'm not going to lie and say it is easy to do that, because it isn't. But if done right, as part of the overall room design concept, it can have good benefits. Especially this one, which is a bit fancier as it has the front edge is curved to a poly-cylindrical shape (pseudo catenary curve).

Quote:
It seems you just need to have big holes in the front lip of it with a ton between all of your cavities.
I wish it were that easy! :) To be honest, in your case I wouldn't design it until the room is built and tested. Then figure out what needs treating, what parts of that actually can realistically be treated by the sofa riser floor, and design accordingly.

- Stuart -


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Quote:
I noticed that you are tilting the glass on the CR side. Are you aware that will reduce isolation?

Yes. However, the solving the light glare problem is more important to me simply because the two pieces of glass are 10 1/2" away from one another at the closest part. As you can see, I could move the CR glass further into the room, but I'd rather keep the room larger. If they were closer, I wouldn't risk it.

Quote:
Why only tempered, not laminated? 12mm tempered isn't going to get you a lot of isolation. What ate the details of the leaf itself?

That was a total typo! Of course it will be laminated. Lack of sleep. Sorry. The leaf is going to be 3/4" OSB + 5/8" drywall. The OSB will give me structural strength to anchor the soffit framing to.

Quote:
What scale? It is unlikely to be the same as Sorbothane...

Great question. I actually thought about using sorbothane since I will already have some for other parts of my build.
I was going to use this: https://www.allglassparts.com/silicone- ... -16-thick/
It states Durometer hardness approx 85 +/- 5
I doubt I'd get much more info than that from the manufacturer.

Quote:
Especially this one, which is a bit fancier as it has the front edge is curved to a poly-cylindrical shape (pseudo catenary curve).

Beautiful. Sadly my design wouldn't be able to accommodate a nice curve like that (lucky me because mine will be much easier to make)

Quote:
To be honest, in your case I wouldn't design it until the room is built and tested. Then figure out what needs treating, what parts of that actually can realistically be treated by the sofa riser floor, and design accordingly.

I'll be treating almost all of my treatment like this. I can plan basic treatment (like hangers and such), but like Franks build, I will be taking measurements and then tuning devices accordingly.

Stuart, if you have time, could you please address these two questions I posted previous?

1. If I only need between 25-30% fresh air, and I'm only implementing duct work/silencers for this air (since the heat and AC is from a mini split), my duct work and such should only be sized so that it will only move 25-30% of what my mini split is spitting out right?

2. It is often warned to "make sure you calculate your static pressure", but never told how to do it.

Thanks!
Greg

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:34 am 
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Quote:
It states Durometer hardness approx 85 +/- 5
Right, but not all "durometers" are equal! There are different scales for Durometer, and they all have "85" on them, but they are all different. You'd need to check what Durometer scale they measured on.

Quote:
I'll be treating almost all of my treatment like this. I can plan basic treatment (like hangers and such), but like Franks build, I will be taking measurements and then tuning devices accordingly.
:thu:

Quote:
1. If I only need between 25-30% fresh air, and I'm only implementing duct work/silencers for this air (since the heat and AC is from a mini split), my duct work and such should only be sized so that it will only move 25-30% of what my mini split is spitting out right?
Nope! It should be sized to move 25-30% of what the correct room flow rate would be for that room (assuming at least 6 changes per hour, preferably 8. The max flow rate of the mini-split isn't really relevant, unless you specifically sized it to provide the correct flow rate for the room when running at max speed. Which would not be a good idea anyway! Always leave a margin, so that you don't have to run the thing full bore all the time.

Quote:
2. It is often warned to "make sure you calculate your static pressure", but never told how to do it.
Use the published tables / spreadsheets / calculators for that. Measure the length of all of your ducts of each size, and count the number of 90° turns for each size, and add them all up. If you have paths in parallel at some point, then treat them as you would for electric circuits in parallel. You can use the same math as for summing resistors in parallel, to get a good estimate. It's not totally accurate, but "good enough for government work" as the saying goes: it gets you in the ball park.

And just like for acoustics, the best way to see what your static pressure actually is, is to measure it after you build it! If it is too high, you can deal with that by shortening paths, changing cross sections, adding additional paths in parallel, adding bypasses, etc. But you still need to do the math in advance, to check that you are not going to exceed the capacity of your AHU. Then check it after it is build, and modify as necessary.

- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:13 am 
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Quote:
You'd need to check what Durometer scale they measured on.

I'll reach out and see if I can find out what scale it was measured on.

Quote:
The max flow rate of the mini-split isn't really relevant, unless you specifically sized it to provide the correct flow rate for the room when running at max speed. Which would not be a good idea anyway! Always leave a margin, so that you don't have to run the thing full bore all the time.

For sure.

Quote:
Use the published tables / spreadsheets / calculators for that.

The spreadsheet I found looks like it will do the trick. If any of you have one you prefer, please share the link for all of us to enjoy!

Quote:
If it is too high, you can deal with that by shortening paths, changing cross sections, adding additional paths in parallel, adding bypasses, etc.

This makes too much sense!

Thanks as always Stuart!

Greg

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:55 am 
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So I'm brainstorming trying to come up with a soffit mounting design that will allow me to have a base/divider permanently fixed to the framing. Here's a rough draft with dimensions completely out of whack. I just want to get some criticism here please.
Attachment:
Permanent Bottom.jpg

The opening in the middle of it will allow for replacement of T-Nuts, changing of any components like hangers or whatever.
Attachment:
Leg Guides.jpg

The 1/2" MDF guides will hold a 4x4 cut to the length required to raise or lower your speaker to line up it's acoustic axis to the proper height.
Attachment:
Side View.jpg

So, when you get a new set of speakers, you'd build the base and speaker enclosure as normal. Cut the base a bit smaller than the permanently fixed divider, install guides and drill holes to line up with the divider.

A front baffle would also have to be sized for any future speakers.

Please criticize.

Greg


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:00 pm 
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I think there might be an easier way of doing it... :)

I PM'd you. Let me know what you think...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:59 pm 
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For Father's Day, I bought myself a damned near mint condition 1988 Delta UniSaw with a bunch of accessories.
Attachment:
UniSaw.jpg

This sure will come in handy for the studio build!

I'll try and get on more of my design asap.

Greg


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