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 Post subject: New mixing room
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:49 am
Posts: 2
Location: NSW, Australia
Hello all,
I have started my journey (very beginning) of treating my mixing room in my new house.
Having a blank canvas which is great to get creative but I am trying to work out what the best approach is and would love some input from this forum!

Please find attached blueprint of the room.

Here is some additional useful information:
  • Wall A is painted brick
  • All other walls are plaster board except for the built-in cupboard's long side which is wood
  • Ceiling height is 2.47m and is plaster
  • Wall B has a large window that is 1.8m x 1.8m and has a heavy set curtain plus vertical blinds that can be pulled aside and rotated
  • Wall C is plaster board
  • The whole room is carpeted with a heavy carpet

I am thinking of setting up the speakers against Wall A, on heavy set speaker stands and hard up against the wall (behind the mixing desk).
The intention is to setup middle of the wall - see photo of the room here https://www.dropbox.com/s/88dwzpfflt3w9 ... 7.jpg?dl=0.
I'm not attached to this position but it is the most practical for fitting people in the room with me.

I am happy to really take the project seriously without moving walls.
Bass traps, diffusers, absorbers, ceiling panels, etc.

Any tips on the direction I should take? Your help is much appreciated!

Alex


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 Post subject: Re: New mixing room
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11984
Location: Santiago, Chile
Hi Alex. Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things! :)

Quote:
Having a blank canvas which is great to get creative but I am trying to work out what the best approach is and would love some input from this forum!
The only feasible layout for your room is to have it facing "Wall B". That's the only orientation where you can get symmetry (which is critical), and have enough space to place your speakers and treatment.

Quote:
The whole room is carpeted with a heavy carpet
That's the first thing you need to do: get rid of the carpet. It has the exact opposite acoustic effect of what a control rooms needed.

Quote:
I am thinking of setting up the speakers against Wall A,
You cannot get acoustic symmetry like that, and it would place your head too close to the rear wall.

Quote:
see photo of the room here
See [b] forum rules for posting (click here)

Quote:
I'm not attached to this position but it is the most practical for fitting people in the room with me.
You'll have to make a choice, then: Do you wan the "most practical" layout, or the "best acoustics" layout? :) And why would it not be practical if the orientation faces Wall B?

Quote:
I am happy to really take the project seriously without moving walls.
How much isolation do you need? That's the normal starting point: You should define how much isolation you need, in decibels, then test how much you have already, to see how much EXTRA you need.

Quote:
Bass traps, diffusers, absorbers, ceiling panels, etc.
The room is too small to use numeric-based diffusers (the type most people think about when they say "diffuser"), so you can forget those. But the rest are certainly necessary. It's a small room so it will need a large amount of bass trapping: that would be your starting point. Then add treatment for SBIR and first reflection points. Then add whatever else is needed to get the room as close as possible to ITU BS.1116-3.


- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


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 Post subject: Re: New mixing room
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:49 am
Posts: 2
Location: NSW, Australia
Hi Stuart,
Thank you for your prompt reply and apologies if I broke some forum rules (hopefully I can be forgiven for my first post).
I can see that the link was my first transgression and I haven't stated budget.

FYI budget is $4-6,000 AUD for first treatment and then happy to spend more over time.

100% I want the best acoustic treatment, that's why I'm here :)

You've raised some great points!

Quote:
The only feasible layout for your room is to have it facing "Wall B". That's the only orientation where you can get symmetry (which is critical), and have enough space to place your speakers and treatment.


Happy to follow this suggestion. It's harder to fit people in the longer room and sit people with me during a mix or session but happy to sacrifice in the name of good acoustics!

Quote:
That's the first thing you need to do: get rid of the carpet. It has the exact opposite acoustic effect of what a control rooms needed.


Great, do you have a suggested medium? Floor boards? Raised in parts? What about the ceiling - does it need anything done to it?

Quote:
How much isolation do you need? That's the normal starting point: You should define how much isolation you need, in decibels, then test how much you have already, to see how much EXTRA you need.


I live in a semi rural area, have a double brick house and musicians for neighbours so decibel level is not an issue. We have seriously tested this with 30 piece bands in the downstairs jam room so I'm not at all concerned about that.

Quote:
The room is too small to use numeric-based diffusers (the type most people think about when they say "diffuser"), so you can forget those. But the rest are certainly necessary. It's a small room so it will need a large amount of bass trapping: that would be your starting point. Then add treatment for SBIR and first reflection points. Then add whatever else is needed to get the room as close as possible to ITU BS.1116-3.


This is great advice thank you. Is there a best place for me to start on working out exactly what I need? i.e. some other threads on this forum.
I'd like to learn to do it myself but I'm also happy to hire some guidance.

Alex


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 Post subject: Re: New mixing room
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11984
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
Thank you for your prompt reply and apologies if I broke some forum rules (hopefully I can be forgiven for my first post).
:thu: So far, so good! :)
Quote:
I can see that the link was my first transgression and I haven't stated budget.
Also, the one about posting photos off-site. This is the reason for that rule: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13069 Take a look at that thread, and see if you can figure out what is going on there... every place you see the word "image", there used to be a photo. But all of the photos he posted are now gone from the original off-site location that he used, so it's no use to anybody. If you wanted to learn from his build today, you can't....

Quote:
100% I want the best acoustic treatment, that's why I'm here
:yahoo:

Quote:
It's harder to fit people in the longer room and sit people with me during a mix or session but happy to sacrifice in the name of good acoustics!
How many people do you need in there with you, and what is their function? If we are talking producers, musicians, and WAGs, then the "standard" way of dealing with that is to have a comfy couch for them towards the rear of the room, where they won't be in your way but can still hear clear sound with a reasonably good stereo image and sound-stage. If you have half a dozen guys sitting next to you at the console, three on each side, none of them is in the sweet spot anyway, so they are not hearing a good stereo image and sound-stage. On the other hand, if you are training engineers how to mix, then you would need to have that guy right next to you, and a good solution would be chairs on wheels...
Quote:
Great, do you have a suggested medium?
What's under the carpet? A concrete slab-on-grade, hopefully! If so, then your best option is to leave it like that: there's no better surface, acoustically. If you don't like the look of bare concrete, you could polish it and/or stain it for a nice effect, and if even that doesn't convince you, then lay good quality laminate flooring on a good underlay. But that might add too much to your budget.

Quote:
What about the ceiling - does it need anything done to it?
Absolutely! The general rule is "hard floor, soft ceiling". You want the reflections from the floor surface, as they give your brain an acoustic reference to "understand" the room, but you don't want too hard surfaces opposite each other (eg, hard floor and hard ceiling), because that will cause flutter-echo. So make the ceiling "soft" with some type of porous absorption. It might not be necessary to do the entire ceiling: usually just doing parts of it is enough, and perhaps with a "cloud" as well.

Quote:
I live in a semi rural area, have a double brick house and musicians for neighbours so decibel level is not an issue.
So there is nothing in your part of New South Wales that could trash your mixing sessions? No thunder, rain, hail, or wind? No aircraft or helicopters flying over? No sirens from ambulances / police / fire engines? No trains? No cars arriving / leaving / driving past? No dogs barking outside? And nothing in the house either, such as water running in pipes, fans, pumps and other motors, people walking on floors, doors closing, people talking, vacuum cleaners, washing machine, radio, TV, furnace, toilet flushing.... There's hundreds of possible sounds that could mess up your mixing sessions, or even prevent you from mixing entirely while they are going on. Are you CERTAIN that your room will not get any of that? ... :)

Quote:
We have seriously tested this with 30 piece bands in the downstairs jam room so I'm not at all concerned about that.
So you have a room where there's a 30 piece band right below your control room, and you don't have a need for isolation from that? :)

Quote:
Is there a best place for me to start on working out exactly what I need? i.e. some other threads on this forum.
Well, you could start with post #1, and work your way through... there's only 137,263 posts right now, so if you can read one per minute, 8 hours per day, you should be finished by the middle of June, roughly .... 8) :lol: (I should have been a comedian! Or maybe not... )

More seriously, I would suggest using the search feature to look for keywords that you are interested in, then take a look at a few of the threads that the search turns up, and sort of chase those around: threads often refer to other threads, that lead to other threads...

The other thing you could do is take a look at threads of recently completed studios: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5842&p=40923#p40923 or just click on the " View new posts" link at the top right of every page, to see the threads that are currently active.

If you want to learn enough about acoustics to do the design yourself, I'd suggest two books: "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest (that's sort of the Bible for acoustics), and "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros", by Rod Gervais. The first one will give you the background in acoustics that you need to be able to design a studio (or treatment for the studio), and the second one will give you the basics for actually designing it and building it.

Realistically, it takes most people about three to six months to get up to speed on acoustics and studio design sufficiently that they can design their own place. I'm not sure if that would fit what you are planning, but if you go that route, then the most important thing is to NOT do ANYTHING with your room, until you have designed it in complete detail. Way too many people get over-eager and jump the gun, building stuff before they are ready. bad mistake

Quote:
I'd like to learn to do it myself but I'm also happy to hire some guidance.
Hiring someone is a real option, and if you prefer that route, then first of all contact John Sayers himself, and see if he can quote you for taking on your project. Beware of unsolicited offers to design your room! Lately we have noticed that there are some uncouth operators that stalk the forum looking for people like you who need help, then contact them off-line via PM, to offer their "services"! Don't take that bait... DANGER! There's only a few studio designers that we would consider recommending, and NONE of them would contact you directly, so if you get an offer, don't even bother answering. If John can't take on your project for whatever reason, then let me know by PM and I'll give you a list of people I trust that can do the job. But YOU will contact THEM first! They won't contact you. The first sign of a scammer or pirate, is that he contacts you, unsolicited.

Caveat emptor!

- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


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