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 Post subject: soffit Problems!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:41 am 
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Location: Barbados
Hi all, I am at the framing part of my build and i have run into a HUGE problem with my soffit design.
As shown in the picture, my main monitors are too big for the cavity, I was looking at the dynaudio M3A, but with a depth of 19.8" It seems to be impossible. I was also looking at the ADAM S3A, but with a depth of 13" it still interferes with my framing. Please help! any recommendations? Would it be acceptable to remove a section of the framing to accommodate the Box for the monitors?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:50 pm 
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gullfo wrote:
option 1 or 3 for the traps.

for the monitor angles, even though the general rule is 30 degrees, if the speakers need to be 45, or 38, or 26, or 22.5, then thats what they need to be....


I love this place! This is exactly what I needed to know for my tiny control-room design. I've been desperately trying to figure out how on earth to keep my head at the recommended "1/3-of-room-length" point, and also keep my speakers at the recommended 60 degree angle, while also having them far enough apart to get a decent stereo image. I figured out that I'd need to bend the laws of physics to make that happen, so I started searching the forum, all over... And here is the solution!

Now I see that I DON'T need to keep the 60 degree angle at all, and I can make it whatever works well for the room!

Whew! You just saved me a whole bunch of headaches. Thank you, Gullfo!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:45 pm 
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if it's tight and you want a wider image go 90 degrees like "Hello Testing"

http://johnlsayers.com/Pages/Hello_Testing.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:25 am 
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Thanks John! But does it have to be only 60 or 90? Can it also be, for example, 70 or 83.2, or 68.7 or whatever, like gullfo said? In my case, if you look at my rough plans so far, I think somewhere around 70 degrees would probably work out fine. 60 doesn't work, and 90 seems like too much for the room width.

Is any angle OK (within reason), as long as the triangle stays equilateral and you splay the walls to the corresponding angle too?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:41 pm 
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bump.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:33 pm 
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sorry - I forgot to get back to you.

It's an interesting question - this is how I see it.

the aim is to have a standard so everyone works with a similar axis to the speakers for uniformity.

In the two systems I've drawn below I've shown the angle generated by each speaker plus the angle created by the high end of the speakers. The difference is where you sit relative to the speakers.

In the 60 degree system you actually sit within the angle created by the speakers whereas with the 90 degrees system you sit at the cross point of the speakers but have a narrower field.

Both end up at the same angle to the speakers so uniformity is maintained.

As you can see the 60 degree system has a wider field to sit within thus allowing the engineer to lean out to the end of a long console and not loose your high end response and it allowed for a producer to sit beside you also without loosing high end response. The wider field was very important when you had 20ft long consoles ;)

I hope this helps

cheers
john


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:53 am 
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Thanks again, John. Your explanation is appreciated. So the only real drawback is the narrowed "sweet spot" field? I guess I can live with that. Especially since my console isn't 20' long!

Right now I have my angle down to about 82 degrees, and I'm working on getting it down so more, but it's REALLY hard in such a tight space as I have!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:12 pm 
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barefoot wrote:
The reason I believe some recording engineers don't like soffit mounting is because it's often done improperly. The most critical aspect of soffit mounting is making sure the monitors are properly designed to work in such an application. Most nearfields and a good deal of midfields are not.

Thomas


Would you suggest soffit mounting Event 20/20bas monitors? They are labeled "Direct field Monitors" in the manual (neither near or mid field). They have an 8" cone and a frequency response that extends down to 38 Hz.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Spencer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:41 am 
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Spencer - I've heard Events soffit mounted and they sound great! Their excellent low end is even tighter.

cheers
john


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:01 am 
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Thanks so much John!

I don't want this to turn into a "would this monitor work..." questioning, but would Adam A7's (7" cone) be too small to be soffit mounted? They are definitely nearfield monitors, and I'm not sure if they are meant to be soffit mounted, (re: Thomas Barefoot had stated many nearfields are not mean to be soffit mounted).

Your advice is greatly appreciated!

Spencer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:52 pm 
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I myself i'm in the process of deciding wether to soffit or not.

Anyone heard the Dynaudio BM6a soffit mounted?

Can they be soffit mounted?

Thanks alot!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:59 am 
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Spencer - here's A7's soffit mounted


Image

What Barefoot was refering to was that some of the nearfield monitors were designed with a bass boost to make up for the free standing loss. If you soffit mounted those speakers the low end was too strong and out of wack.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:43 pm 
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The funny thing is; These monitors are called "near fields" which basically mean they create a field near the monitor. The best listening point is within that field, which is near the monitor.

Soffit mounting them makes the distance usually bigger than those monitors were build for. So be careful while spacing them away from your desk.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:49 pm 
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John Sayers wrote:
Spencer - here's A7's soffit mounted


Image

What Barefoot was refering to was that some of the nearfield monitors were designed with a bass boost to make up for the free standing loss. If you soffit mounted those speakers the low end was too strong and out of wack.



Those A7's have a Room EQ knob in the back to attenuate or boost 150Hz by 6dB. Did you use this feature when you soffit mounted them to make up for anything?

I want to soffit mount mine and I am wondering if I should do this or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Apologies in advance if I've posted this in the wrong place, and for my naivité.

I've been reading all the threads I can find on this topic, and this one seems the most relevant . I'll try to be succinct in my questions.

1-It seems to me from this thread, and others, that when choosing to soffitt mount speakers one assumes certain things:

a) That one owns a medium to large set of 'farfield speakers.'. They are best soffitt mounted, as they will sound better that way. They are designed to function at a greater distance from the listener.

b) That one owns a second set of 'nearfield monitors,' like NS-10's or similar, which one uses for the bulk of mixing. They are typically to be free standing, placed very close to the engineer, like 3-4 feet away, in locations such that the egineer's head, and the two speakers, form an equilateral triangle.

Therefore, if I ONLY have a set of nearfield monitors(I have Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 Pro Actives, in a modest home studio), it sounds like I would simply place them on my desk, or console, and postion them at ear level. And I would save the soffitt mounting idea for the day if, and when, I buy a set of far-fileds.

Am I correct in this, or is my train off the rails???



2-I've come across a few references here to soffitt mounting boosting the bass. I think 6dB is the amount that's been mentioned. If that's the case, then in theory, this addition of extra bass would not be giving a completely flat, or true representation of the mix.

a) Is THAT a true statement?

b) If so, then one would need to address it. Would it be simplest to dial up an EQ in the master, find out where that spike is, attenuate it, and then use that EQ setting each time one employed the soffitt mount speakers?



A comment. Regarding soffitt mounting a set of powered speakers: It seems to me that it's a big pain to soffitt mount them, and then have to create airflow for venting and such.

On my powered speakers, all the guts are located on a panel on the back of the speaker. Seems to me the simplest thing would be to remove that panel, mount it on the front of the soffitt somewhere(or wherever you want), and then run wires from it to the speakers. This way you maintain access to all the jacks, volume, bass cut, and power switches. And the cooling fins are right out there in the open. Cool as cucumbers. Wouldn't that be a lot simpler than doing cartwheels and handstands in the design and construction?

I suppose you'd want to wait til you'd owned them for a year, as it might void the warranty :mrgreen:

Thanks. I appreciate the expertice here.

Peace
Keith

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