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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:27 pm 
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Location: Palapye Botswana AFRICA
Greetings

I have gone to the hard ware and found out if they can supplu mi with rockwoll and they said that they could bring it from shouth africa. I think that I will go with this as I think that i will not need too much of it. I have odered about 5 roll that are 30 metres long and will hear the price later. Maybe its not so expensive because we get most building materials from South Africa.

As to the sand in the holes between the bricks, I am not sure it will work, at the wall has been filled with motar and sand will not go to the very bottom of the wall. due to motar that will block the bricks space.

But I think that in the middle of the two 230 walls, sand can be filled thereas there was some sapce left there by the builder. But I dont know if this will be the right way to do it and if it will be a good sound proofing method, if I fill the centre and not as you have suggested.

THanks JohnG, for feeling that I am doing a good job, I thank people like yourselves that take time to help people like myself and other around the world how they can better thier situation in any way.

Thank you

Moemedi R. Ramogapi
FOr Ruff Riddims


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:37 am 
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It looked to me that you had four thin brick walls. However, what you are now describing is two thick brick walls.

If there's mortar between brick stacks one and two, then three and four, and there is an air pocket between two and three, then you may be much better than I initially thought.

Can you take a photo of the wall from the top down?

--Keith :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:18 am 
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Looking at the photos it looks to me like you will be best to leave the walls alone.

DO NOT put sand in the middle hole, leave it as AIR.

Hopefully theres enough morter between the bricks on either side of the middle gap that you have a two leaf system anyway.

Good luck

JohnG

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:50 am 
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I pretty much agree with John, but seeing pictures of the wall from the top down would still be best. :)

I'm assuming a mass-air-mass with a tiny gap is better than a solid mass for low frequencies... Or is it?

--Keith :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:23 am 
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Location: Palapye Botswana AFRICA
Greetings My brothers

The walls where set at 230 wall and another 230 wall and there is a small wall between the two walls. I will try and get some pics first thing in the Morning, lost light so it will be best to put up something early tomorrow.

So i will have some pics early tomorrow and you can check them out as soon as you find some time.

I think the Builder put enough Mortar between the bricks or the 230 walls and left the space between them.

SO I will try and get every thing you need, I will take some pictures of side veiw to see also if the Bricks have enough mortar.

Thank you all

Moemedi


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:08 am 
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Greetings

I have managed to get some pictures to show the brick wall.

Does the Isolation also act as a slight sound proofing?

I would like to put a first ceiling and then put a second false celing.

I am should start roofing soon so that other parts of the building progress

Are there any suggestions on how the false Celing should be.

Bless

Moemedi


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:16 am 
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OK, those pictures are good.

Unfortunately, I'm quite worried about stuff like this:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:25 am 
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I agree that you shouldn't add sand between the two walls (layers 2 and 3). That was probably a bad idea and I'm sorry that I brought it up.

I also don't think you can effectively add sand to the other areas. The cracks appear to be too narrow for the sand to fall correctly. :?

Do you have the option of extending the outer wall higher, so that you can suspend the roof from the outer wall and then suspend the ceiling from the inner, lower wall?

Also, be aware that in English there are two separate terms that look and sound similar but are in fact very different:
    Isolation refers to something being apart from something else. "An island is isolated from the mainland." In studio context, it's similar to "soundproofing." "You need to achieve good isolation (a.k.a. "soundproofing") in your studio so that you don't disturb the neighbors."

    Insulation typically refers to the product that you use in walls and ceilings to keep buildings comfortable -- keeping heat from penetrating to the other side. "The walls have insulation in them so that it doesn't get so hot inside in the summertime."
It gets confusing because we often use insulation as a product to help us achieve good isolation.

At this point I think we need to defer to the experts here (which, actually, I am not -- but I'm pretty good at asking the right questions so that the real experts can help). As we say here in the U.S., "You're in a pickle," so hopefully you can get some advice to help you get out of it. :) I've sent a couple of private messages about this, so hopefully you'll hear from them soon.

--Keith :mrgreen:

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:56 am 
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Couple of things here - one, I've been having a "behind the scenes" discussion on the subject of whether hollow concrete blocks really are a "2-leaf wall" or not, with Eric (who denies ever telling me they were 2-leaf) and Rod, who also (maybe) remembers Eric saying they were 2-leaf - the current thinking now seems to be that they are NOT 2-leaf because the webs are too short, making the blocks too stiff for opposing sides to act indepently -

Two, is my eyesight getting worse or are the outer walls really two "double brick" walls separated by a small air gap? Also, what is the dimensions for EACH BRICK used in the making of these walls? Third, were there "weep holes" left anywhere in the construction for water drainage, or is this not done in your area?

If my perception in the above paragraph is correct, then the only isolation problem I foresee is between your CR and the other room; the hard connections between the dividing wall and the outer wall will flank noise between these two rooms. Not as bad as having noise travel into or out of the whole studio, but still something to be aware of.

OK, one more isolation problem/question - what are you planning for an outer roof, and an inner ceiling? The concepts of mass-air-mass will also need to be used here... Steve

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:53 am 
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I'm not so concerned about the walls as there's not much that can be done now and I think they will work as it.

Moemedi, it's the general design I'm more interested in. Firstly these rooms are very small yet, judging by the materials you have, they could be much better applied if you expanded the design along these lines - do you really need an office??

cheers
john


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:30 am 
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Hi John

great hearing from you after a while. I just realized that too that they are too small. I am really concerned about the design too aswell as the sound proofing. But its the design that is really stressing mi out right now.

I honesty need an office, I also make some video animation and graphic work for companies in the Capital City Gaborone and wanted that office to be the place where I could work even if the studio is being used by the engineers.i really needed some space for the other stuff that i do so that even if am busy working in the office production continues in the other rooms.

THe Store room I could do with out for now but would need one later when we start distribution.

But John, I am very much open to all your suggestions because I am totally in the dark. But the most important thing is that is should be cost effective as the demolishing of the existing wall is going to call for more cash, but i will talk to the Builder once we have a design that we all happy with and i could execute with out any hickups. i am looking for a design that will really blow people away and still do a great job. I am open to suggestion.

The other things is that the wall thickness is only 460mm around the area that I had allocated for the studio and the rest of the area is partision of 115mm but the out side wall is 230mm. I hope that you understand what I mean.

THe other alternative would to keep the studio very simple, I mean the oparations and just keep it computer based and just make a voicing booth. So that when I find some land of my own, I will be able to expand a whole new studio that will be able to offer everything due to the Size. I am just worried that the demolision and reconstruction will kill me. I think there should be some land to be advertised in my village soon and i could expand the whole studio there and see that things are done right from the foundation.

If we left recording bands out and just focused on keeping it as a control room and booth where we can just record, percussion, bass, vocals one at a time there instead of the whole band including the drums. i am just worried about the cost and that the mess up of having constructed without this websites input .

That is what I think. If i get my own land soon and have the money to invest in a bigger studio that can do every thing that we wish to do in it.

Please let mi know what you think. If this option would work better. As space is too small, maybe its an option that we could consider. Let mi know.

Thanks Moemedi


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:43 am 
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knightfly wrote:
Couple of things here - one, I've been having a "behind the scenes" discussion on the subject of whether hollow concrete blocks really are a "2-leaf wall" or not, with Eric (who denies ever telling me they were 2-leaf) and Rod, who also (maybe) remembers Eric saying they were 2-leaf - the current thinking now seems to be that they are NOT 2-leaf because the webs are too short, making the blocks too stiff for opposing sides to act indepently -

Two, is my eyesight getting worse or are the outer walls really two "double brick" walls separated by a small air gap?

the wall measure 460mm which is 2 x 230 walls and they have a small space between them.

Also, what is the dimensions for EACH BRICK used in the making of these walls?

The dimensions of the walls are 115mm that is the width and the length is 230mm, I will have to take a picture and give you these, and get another measurement that i did not mention.

Third, were there "weep holes" left anywhere in the construction for water drainage, or is this not done in your area?

i dont know the "weep holes" and is this for drainage inside or outside, please explain. I did not understand this question at all.

If my perception in the above paragraph is correct, then the only isolation problem I foresee is between your CR and the other room; the hard connections between the dividing wall and the outer wall will flank noise between these two rooms. Not as bad as having noise travel into or out of the whole studio, but still something to be aware of.

OK, one more isolation problem/question - what are you planning for an outer roof, and an inner ceiling? The concepts of mass-air-mass will also need to be used here... Steve


I will try and get a sketch for the roof. the thing is that I am also looking for suggestion on roof, but the one that I can afford is the flat roof with slop. i will try and get a sketch on the idea .

Thanks for the questions and I hope that you shall be able to help too. Nice to meet you.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:45 am 
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Sorry Steve

Please read your quote as I answered the questions there.thank you


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:27 am 
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Moemedi, so why not get at least one of the rooms right. As you have to demolish the dividing wall you could move it to give a good sized control room and a smaller booth.

cheers
john


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:06 am 
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...and then in theory, when dealing with a full band, you could get the drums in the smaller booth and the rest of the musicians in the control room... Then use the booth for vocals afterwards.

--Keith :mrgreen:

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