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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:44 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
flooring and paint

I had leftover paint from the house build. not enough, so I just combined two colours to get on you see on the walls. Only one coat. In the future I will paint again.

I got the flooring on sale. ( the burlap too). So there was no style co-ordination here! all the finish choices were budget driven.

the empty room had an odd echo, but after moving the gear back in, the echo disappeared.

I'm not going to bother treating the room until I decide to do some serious recording/mixing. It sounds very good just the way it is!! The drums, especially, sound excellent. ( I'm not sure why, maybe they just sounded really bad before.lol)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:53 am 
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door construction. I added the detail as the 1st pic so that you could see what I did.

I kind of went over the top with this. I'm still in the process of figuring out how to seal the outside of the door. Right now, it works as is, but it does leak sound through the seals.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:57 am 
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I moved back in for some volume testing.

Results: I can play guitar with a drummer and there is no sound in the kids room! You can hear playing everywhere in the house though. Upstairs, it can be drowned out if the tv is on at normal volume. (about 45 DBs)

guitar, by myself, I can play at about 90 decibels at any time of the day. I cranked a JMP 2204 and it got to 120 decibels. outside of the room it was about 60 dbs. ( as you know, you can't be in a room with a cranked Marshall for very long. I'm not worried about ever going over 95 dbs)

drums, by myself, I can play after the kids go to bed, but not when my wife is sleeping. ( I probably could, but it's best not to try!!)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:58 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
I haven't taken the time to add up the final cost, but I'm just around $6000 Canada. ( I budgeted for 5K)

I started in August and moved in during last Christmas break. I spent most of my free time working on this. It was a huge undertaking.

Now that I can play in there, I haven't really been motivated to finish.

Here's what's left:

1)trim and crown moulding. my dad is retired and likes to do this kind of stuff. He'll be happy to do it, when I ask
2) acoustic treatment.
3) door seals. no rush here either. I'm happy with the isolation i'm getting in the living spaces. There is sound leaking out of the door and it is disappointing showing people my "sound proof room" that's not sound proof.
4) door handles and paint.
5) I'd like to get some Phillips Hue bulbs, but they're too expensive right now. I'm going to have to make this a future purchase.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:22 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
and here's some pictures of the room today...

right now, it's set up in "practice drums mode".

with the leftover MDF from the doors, I built a super handy rolling cart/desk. (note that the laptop is missing, because I'm upstairs using it to post this thread). I also built a set of adjustable speaker stands.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 am 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
the empty room had an odd echo,
Probably flutter. Did you do a proper REW baseline line acoustic test in the empty room, so you'll know hot to treat it when the time comes?

Quote:
I moved back in for some volume testing. Results: I can play guitar with a drummer ... You can hear playing everywhere in the house though.
Yup. Not surprising, since you did several things that would trash the isolation that you tried to achieve.... It could have been substantially better.

Quote:
it is disappointing showing people my "sound proof room" that's not sound proof.
I can imagine.... :)

In short, as I mentioned in all of my responses on your thread, there's several things you could have done differently, if only you would have come to the forum BEFORE you started building, posted your complete design at the start, and posted progress images and descriptions along the way. Unfortunately, it's a bit late to fix those issues now.... there really isn't much you can do at this stage.

- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:42 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
Soundman2020 wrote:
Hi there "scotth", and Welcome to the forum! :)
Thanks Stuart! I've lurked on here for quite a while, it's a wonderful resource. and If I can single you out; you especially

Quote:
What I wanted: I room that I could have band practice in at any time of the day. I also have considered, one day, using the room to do professional recording and mixing.
What was your design goal, in terms of isolation? In other words, how many decibels of transmission loss did you design for? I just went for the best I could achieve. I built to the highest standards I could find available for my space.

Quote:
in floor heating
How did you deal with the issue of anchoring your new inner-leaf walls into that floor, without damaging the heating system? construction glue

Quote:
I also added a double layer of 5/8" drywall to the underside of the existing floor.
I guess you mean: "the existing floor above this room" ? You got it



Question: How did you build that? How did you get the drywall on top of the joists?

Quote:
with ceiling heights of 7'11 and 6'9".
If your original joist height was 8'4", and you built inside-out, how come you ended up with such a low ceiling? I used 2 x4s as the ceiling joist, plus a 1 inch air gap... so 8'4- 4.5 = 7'11 1/2"

Quote:
Here's the prints and drawings that I drew up.
Please post larger versions of those: it's very hard to make out the notes and dimensions on some of them. Also, please post the final actual plans that you built from, or better still, your full 3D model of the studio.
Quote:
I posted them the largest that I could. if you want any specific dimension, please ask

Quote:
I used drywall screws to fix the drywall to the OSB floor.
:shock: :?: WHY???? That is NOT the correct way to "beef up" the sub-floor above you. The correct way is to hold the drywall in place with cleats, at the edges. By screwing in thin strips instead of allowing them to act independently, you have decreased the isolation of that floor at some frequencies, notably around the coincidence dip. You have added mass, yes, but you added by basically sticking it to the existing mass, the same as gluing layers of a wall together. This is not good... I searched a long time to find out why the cleats were added. The only reason why Rod suggested this, that I could find, was because he doesn't trust that screws will hold over time. If you have other quotes from MR. Gervais that suggest otherwise, please post them to help the next reader/builder of this thread




Quote:
the plans say 16" centres, but I went with 12" on the advice of the building inspector.
I'm VERY surprised that he would approve that! Was he aware that you would be using two layers of 5/8 drywall on the ceiling, with GG? I'm VERY skeptical that your ceiling is able to support the load safely. What deflection did you calculate for? I'm afraid you have shot yourself in the foot there, since I don't see that you'll be able to hang anything acoustic treatment from that. A hard.backed cloud, for example, is heavy, and is anchored to just a few points. I very much doubt that you'll be able to do that, with just skinny, flimsy 2x4's up there. The plans were reviewed by a civil engineer and the building inspector. I never have considered adding a cloud, though. that might be an oversight. we'll see what suggest for room treatment in the future..

I'm also very confused by your inner-leaf wall photos: they seem to show that the wall tops are attached to the existing joists above you????There's a 4 1/2" gap between the inner leaf and existing joists to allow for the ceiling joist and a air gap.

....

I'll keep on commenting, as you keep on posting further details...


- Stuart -


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:48 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
Soundman2020 wrote:
Quote:
after the walls were up, I rough-in the electrical system.
Why are your electrical boxes located BEHIND your drywall? That implies that you have to cut huge gaping holes in your drywall, which totally trashes your isolation.... All electrical boxes are behind the inner leaf. I built sealed, double drywall boxes around them to limit any sound that enters through the face plate

Quote:
and one switch for the exhaust fan.
What exhaust fan? Why do you even need that? If your HVAC system was designed correctly, the AHU should be moving the air. Or was the static pressure of your ducts and silencers too high for that, and you had to add a booster fan? exhaust fan isn't the right term. It's a on/off switch that's tied in with the AHU system. (it's the same way our bathrooms exausts air)

....


- Stuart -


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:58 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
Soundman2020 wrote:
drywall 9.JPG <---- that one clearly shows that your INNER leaf drywall goes all the way up to your OUTER leaf joists.... Therefore I'm guessing that isolation was not really a priority here at all, since you won't be getting much...that's a picture of the outside leaf. in the guest room (note the window)

drywall 3.JPG <----- that one clearly shows some typf of very small HVAC duct, with NO silencer box, feeding into a contraption that rotates the ar flow through 90° and RESTRICTS the airflow at the register, thus greatly increasing he airflow speed.... WHY???? Why on earth would you do that, if you read Rod's book? :roll: that's the return air.

Quote:
I did my take offs from the duct work outside of the room, and ran flexible duct, inside their own chases, into the room.
Why did you use that size duct? What flow rate and flow velocity did you calculate? What is the static pressure of your studio HVAC system? Is your current house system capable of dealing with that? You did check, right? I used 5" supply which was what originally fed the room. And a 6" return. I ran this by the guy who installed the HVAC. He didn't have any problems. I should probably get him back now that i'm done, though

As for the silencers, for the supply I used 15' of flexible duct run inside an insulated chase. The return is about 12' of insulated duct in it's own insulated chase.

....

- Stuart -


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:05 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
Soundman2020 wrote:
Quote:
I built frames out of 1x2s that fit inside of the ceiling joists
you used 2 x 2 framing????? With two layers of 5/8" drywall on top????? And your inspector approved that????

Quote:
I could not do an inverse ceiling in this area because it would have greatly reduced my sound isolation.
Ummm.... that's not true. With correct design, it would have been possible. The ONLY thing that matters for MSM system design, is the mass on each leaf, and the depth of the gap between them. Do that right, and it does not matter if you did it with conventional or inside-out construction. By the way, what is the MSM resonant frequency of your ceiling? You DID calculate that, right? Correction, I could not do a reverse ceiling here because I would have lost 12" of depth on the ceiling height to get the same air gap as the rest of ceiling. (because the ceiling joist acts as a return air in some of these joists in this area. Which is basically a 12" gap straight to upstairs.)

finish ceiling 5.JPG <----- I may be wrong here, but it certainly looks like you cut a hole in your ceiling there, to fit in that light pot... Thus trashing your isolation... I believe that you're referring to the supply air duct, which is in it's own insulated chase.

....


- Stuart -


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:12 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
Soundman2020 wrote:
Quote:
the empty room had an odd echo,
Probably flutter. Did you do a proper REW baseline line acoustic test in the empty room, so you'll know hot to treat it when the time comes? Yes, I did. I will be asking for your help shortly!

Quote:
I moved back in for some volume testing. Results: I can play guitar with a drummer ... You can hear playing everywhere in the house though.
Yup. Not surprising, since you did several things that would trash the isolation that you tried to achieve.... It could have been substantially better.

Quote:
it is disappointing showing people my "sound proof room" that's not sound proof.
I can imagine.... :)

In short, as I mentioned in all of my responses on your thread, there's several things you could have done differently, if only you would have come to the forum BEFORE you started building, posted your complete design at the start, and posted progress images and descriptions along the way. Unfortunately, it's a bit late to fix those issues now.... there really isn't much you can do at this stage.

- Stuart -


You edited my posts, so that you could criticize my build. Doing so you failed to realize that I'm very happy with the isolation! I'm playing, at band volume, while my family is sleeping!! what more could you ask for? The loudest it gets outside the room is "tv" volume.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
You edited my posts,
No. I did no such thing. Sorry to disillusion you, but everything in your posts is exactly what you wrote. I do not edit the posts of forum members. The ONLY time I edit posts, is those of spammers, to remove the spam.

BYE

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:05 am 
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Location: Morden, MB Canada
Soundman2020 wrote:
Quote:
You edited my posts,
No. I did no such thing. Sorry to disillusion you, but everything in your posts is exactly what you wrote. I do not edit the posts of forum members. The ONLY time I edit posts, is those of spammers, to remove the spam.

BYE



Maybe edit was the wrong word, but I feel that when you quoted me, you removed words that took away the context of what I was trying to convey.


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