John Sayers' Design Forum

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

A World of Experience
Click Here for Information on John's Services
It is currently Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:20 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:30 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11026
Location: Santiago, Chile
Oh COOL! Steve's back!!! :yahoo:

- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:52 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
yep, I'm certainly glad to be back Stuart :D It's not at all on the topic of building studios and it's probably common knowledge to anyone who runs thier own business, but if you prioritise work above just about everything else, you know what you get....work!

Hopefully a bit of a more even keeled year this year given that the studio is done, which is probably relevant to anyone who is doing a build. The amount of time, effort and thought that goes into building a quality studio is a significant drain on your personal resources (not to mention financial) and can really impact on your time if you don't plan accordingly. I reckon that I underestimated my build by about 50-60% in terms of time and difficulty. I'd be interested to hear if any other completed/in progress builds agree with that kind of figure.

Either way, as long as you're ending up with the right souding room then you've had a win :yahoo:

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:38 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:46 pm
Posts: 5366
Location: Australia
Very true Steve - people always underestimate how difficult it is to put a studio together., especially builders who are used to building square room homes.

_________________
John Sayers Productions


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:52 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
John Sayers wrote:
especially builders who are used to building square room homes.


good point John, and conversely, when I do the reno on our house I'll be using a lot of the techniques that I picked up from building the studio ie: 16mm plaster, high density insulation, air gaps sealed etc. I'm sure most builders would say to me "you don't need to do all that crap on a house". But I sure will be, given that the outdoor temps in Victoria were between 40-45 degrees all last week and the studio sat at around 20 degrees without the air-con on. 8)

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:05 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:46 pm
Posts: 5366
Location: Australia
Tell them - I'm building a recording studio - and that's the way it is.

_________________
John Sayers Productions


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:02 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
Attachment:
l and r monitors.jpg

Attachment:
l and r monitors to 1k.jpg

Attachment:
l and r top end.jpg


Sooooo, I'm finally back in REW mode and I think I've finally figured out how to use it properly. Here's a few screen shots from my most recent test. L monitor is red and R monitor is yellow. There's a fair bit of defference in the L and R readings, (especialy the top end!!!) which I don't believe has to do with the room symmetry.

Attachment:
CR front.jpg

Attachment:
CR rear.jpg


I'm really starting to think I've got an issue with the monitors themselves :cry: Especially that difference in roll off at the top. The monitors were re-tweeted a few years ago so I'd like to think it isn't the tweeters themselves. I could probably get the tweeters out and swap them over to do a test and see if I get the same kind of roll off on the tops.

If it's the roll off switches at the back of the monitor that have been tweaked during installation then it's a whole other world of pain to get the monitors back out of the soffits :shock:


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:43 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
Attachment:
l and r tweeter swap top end.jpg


well, it looks like I can rule out a dodgy tweeter. swapped them over and had the same results. The mic, levels etc have been changed between the first test and this one so they can't be A/B'd directly, but it's giving me the same roll off on the right monitor.

I don't want to take them out but it might be the only way to be sure.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:35 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11026
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
I'm really starting to think I've got an issue with the monitors themselves :cry: Especially that difference in roll off at the top.
Not necessarily. That type of response is typically what you see when measuring rooms: It's likely to be room-related, rather than speaker related. It might even be some type of phase cancellation that is happening in the highs at the specific location where the mic is. Use REW to measure with just just one speaker active, with the mic in several different locations around the room, and compare. If they all show the same roll-off, then I'd suspect tweeters. But if they all show different roll-off, then it's probably the room.

If you post the actual MDAT file, or a link to it, then I'll download that and take a look.

- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:31 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
Soundman2020 wrote:
Use REW to measure with just just one speaker active, with the mic in several different locations around the room, and compare. If they all show the same roll-off, then I'd suspect tweeters. But if they all show different roll-off, then it's probably the room.


great idea Stuart (as always :D ). hopefully i'll get a bit of time later this week to do this test and post results.

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:59 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11026
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
hopefully i'll get a bit of time later this week to do this test and post results.
since this is testing for high frequencies, it is imperative that the room should be identical for each test. The best way to achieve that is for you to NOT be in the room when the test is running, or your body itself could affect the readings. Fortunately, there's a new feature in the latest versions of REW that allows you to set a delay from the time you hit the "Start" button until the test actually starts, so you can get out of the room, shut the door, and a few extra seconds for things to calm down inside. So I'd suggest that you use that feature, and leave the room every time.

- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:00 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
Soundman2020 wrote:
Fortunately, there's a new feature in the latest versions of REW that allows you to set a delay from the time you hit the "Start" button


great, thanks for the tip Stuart, that's genius :D I'll update my version.

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:28 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
I finally got round to doing some serious testing of the monitors themselves and it's definitely a hardware problem :roll:

A/Bing the monitors with the same signal after removing them from the soffits reveals a top end roll off in the L monitor which I can't account for as the high and low shelf switches at the back are flat on both units. Adjusting the monitor in question by putting the +1db HF boost on and winding it up by 2-3 db above the other one certainly feels a lot more balanced.

looks like it's a trip to the doctors for them when I can get around to it :cry:

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11026
Location: Santiago, Chile
Bummer! That's unusual for a pair of good speakers to be that far off. Maybe one got damaged during the build?

But here's a positive thought: This might be a really good excuse to upgrade to some even better speakers, that would do your awesome room justice! A fantastic room like that should have fantastic speakers in it... Maybe your pen and your chequebook are due for some time together.... :)


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:45 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:16 pm
Posts: 307
Location: Trentham,Vic, Australia
Soundman2020 wrote:
Bummer! That's unusual for a pair of good speakers to be that far off. Maybe one got damaged during the build?


Yeah, could be, but i'd like to think I was pretty careful :) I'll get them looked at by a technician when I can have them out of the studio for an extended period of time.

Soundman2020 wrote:
This might be a really good excuse to upgrade to some even better speakers


well, funny you should say that Stuart.....because I was thinking exactly the same thing 8) Possibly Neumann 310 KH's if the cheque book can handle it :shock:

_________________
quick, cheap or good....pick any two.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11026
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
Neumann 310 KH
Oh Yeah! Now we talkin'! K&H stuff is really good. I spec'd those for a studio in the Netherlands a while back (still under construction), and the owner loved them when he tried them out. Difficult to go wrong with K&H (even if it is called "Neumann" these days"...). I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed with a pair of K&H's up front.


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group