John Sayers' Design Forum

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

A World of Experience
Click Here for Information on John's Services
It is currently Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:43 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 112 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:31 pm
Posts: 3
zega wrote:
First few questions/suggestions.

Are you going to use subwoofer?
I think that 2x8" per unit is inadequate for studio, 2x12" or at least 2x10" is my sugesstion, especially regarding your mid choice, you won't have problem matching them.
Take a look at this post of mine on DIYaudio
It is my $ per liter of air volume displacement idea as woofer selection mechanism, it can help when you already have few woofer to choose from, regarding your desired setup...
Regarding woofers, other that i think they are too small, and has metal membrane, motor is not of anything special, Le impedance rise rise suggest there is no shorting rings in the motor or any similar method of reducing distortions in the bass region where their impact is largest (and curve of the ear sensitivity is not helping there-loudness(Fletcher-Munson curves)) really suggests to read that article. [SPAM LINK REMOVED - SPAMMER BANNED]
I think there is many better choices there...
Edit here, i checked the woofer data sheet more in detail, and they claim the use of : "two short-circuit paths" although impedance curve does not reveal that?!

Now why all the obsession with metal cone drivers, i try to avoid them as a rule of thumb, let me explain.
The good cone/dome material is supposedly to have high inner dumping and high stiffness, since both requirements are not on the same team, you got to compromise there, and metal is worst there...
If you check the response curve both have very nasty ringing above its usable range that heavily overshoots (it is even worse when you point the mic at it when you compare it to manufacturers datasheet).
That ringing you can represent yourself as bell effect, with stimulus like Dirac impulse (kicks, some drums, claps...) it will ring that you wil able to hear it with your own ears, it will introduce its own acoustic signature, "timbre" and it is not a good one, especially for studio where you try to avoid any sound coloration like plague!
The crossower helps BUT you can still hear it unless you are going with "brickwall" filter (active, eliptic).

Over 10 years ago i purchased good sound card (Midiman delta audiophile) that can do 96Khz Fs in order to do bunch of measurements on loudspeakers (now have 24bit/192Khz), but first reaction of my collegues was: why do you need that high Fs, we do not hear above 20K anyways?
Well widespread use od metal domes in tweeters was bugging me, so i wanted to investigate that little bit more in detail, and found out that ringing peak in tweet is the worst above 20K where we don't hear it, but, due to the non linear distortion mechanism involved in loudspeaker drivers as a normal thing, IMD type distortions with some help of normal program above 10K will create enhanced ALIASES in audible part, like in bad DAC!
Your tweeter choice is ok, no objections there (although we can debate better choices if you wish) but the point was more on other drivers, in tweeter you can hear it (metal membrane resonance), but in bass and mid it is even worse because it is in audible portion of the reproduced spectra.

So the same story regarding membrane works for mid (the underhung motor is great there) but the overall ringing effect is worse...

I do like the WMTMW 90deg arrangement, reminds me of some Dynaudio flushed studio monitors very nice.
In you drawing representation and real speaker you should try to put mids as close to the tweet, and then find space for woofers.
With MTM it is common that Comb filter effect that should be minimized and pushed higher in freq outside of operating range of the drivers in that arrangement if possible (hardly)!

Did you consider going active?
[SPAM LINK REMOVED - SPAMMER BANNED]
At least in the beginning to get the real transfer curves and when sound sits properly, can do dedicated active filter fitting in SPICE (better then that DCX2496 crossover solution, just DCX front end is worse then good custom filter, permanent one with higher quality, except for time delay issues, but you can always offset acoustic centers of the drivers since you're the one who is designing that loudspeaker so i do not see a problem there, i have already done some passive impulse cooherent, phase exact speakers in the past) together with some decent amps...
And there is more (5way?)...
IDK, i see potential in that speaker project and studio stuff should be top notch anyways, just my 2c

Regards


Well those are some good questions and suggestions :D


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:07 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11265
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
Well those are some good questions and suggestions
And I found an even better suggestion! It is called "ban the sneaker stupid spammer!" Best suggestion today, actually!

Bye! :)


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 10:16 pm
Posts: 1
Wooohooo!!! New stuff to learn! :) Cool! Great! Thanks


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:59 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11265
Location: Santiago, Chile
Twanna wrote:
Wooohooo!!! New stuff to learn! :) Cool! Great! Thanks


Wooohooo!!! A New spammer to ban and block! :) Cool! Great! Thanks


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:54 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Arnhem, The Netherlands
Why won't spammers find something uselful to do? Pisses me off!

Other than that, this tread is incredibly inspiring!
I'd really love to hear that room.


Last edited by The Sound Guy on Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:52 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:51 am
Posts: 310
Location: Lansing, MI USA
Thanks! I wish there was a way to share how great it does sound. It is not only a control room, it has also become a listening room and a place to relax. Everyone that comes over is blown away by how good it sounds. I still haven't decided if it is the room, the speakers, or both.

The mixing we have done has translated very well to other systems and we are using it to master a project done in another studio.

I did my first full band tracking session this week. It is so nice to have an isolated control room and actually hear what the drums are going to sound like before playing back!

One of these days I will do a final room measurement like I promised Stuart!

_________________
"It don't get no better than this"


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:27 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11265
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
I still haven't decided if it is the room, the speakers, or both.
My guess is: all of the above! Starting with the speakers. It's an excellent design, and an excellent implementation. Plus the room itself, of course. And don't forget the soffit mount! That most certainly helps a lot. If you would have built the same speakers in a normal box on a stand, with no soffits, the room/speaker combination would not have performed anywhere near as well.

Oh, and it LOOKS great too.

Quote:
It is so nice to have an isolated control room and actually hear what the drums are going to sound like before playing back!
Have you measured the isolation, to see how much you got in the end?

Quote:
One of these days I will do a final room measurement like I promised Stuart!
Yes yes yes yes!!! :yahoo: :yahoo: :snack: Definitely! It's gonna be pretty darn good, I'm sure. :snack:


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 112 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group