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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Location: Arnhem, The Netherlands
Why won't spammers find something uselful to do? Pisses me off!

Other than that, this tread is incredibly inspiring!
I'd really love to hear that room.


Last edited by The Sound Guy on Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:51 am
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Location: Lansing, MI USA
Thanks! I wish there was a way to share how great it does sound. It is not only a control room, it has also become a listening room and a place to relax. Everyone that comes over is blown away by how good it sounds. I still haven't decided if it is the room, the speakers, or both.

The mixing we have done has translated very well to other systems and we are using it to master a project done in another studio.

I did my first full band tracking session this week. It is so nice to have an isolated control room and actually hear what the drums are going to sound like before playing back!

One of these days I will do a final room measurement like I promised Stuart!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:27 am 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
I still haven't decided if it is the room, the speakers, or both.
My guess is: all of the above! Starting with the speakers. It's an excellent design, and an excellent implementation. Plus the room itself, of course. And don't forget the soffit mount! That most certainly helps a lot. If you would have built the same speakers in a normal box on a stand, with no soffits, the room/speaker combination would not have performed anywhere near as well.

Oh, and it LOOKS great too.

Quote:
It is so nice to have an isolated control room and actually hear what the drums are going to sound like before playing back!
Have you measured the isolation, to see how much you got in the end?

Quote:
One of these days I will do a final room measurement like I promised Stuart!
Yes yes yes yes!!! :yahoo: :yahoo: :snack: Definitely! It's gonna be pretty darn good, I'm sure. :snack:


- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:28 am
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Location: Delta, BC Canada
Hey Eric,

First off, this is a very inspiring thread. Room looks great!!! I'm starting a build of my own in my new house reno, and this thread definitely piqued my interest as I'm currently trying to figure out the details of flush mounting my Dynaudio BM6As, but the DIYer in me thinks that this would be way cooler.

Not hijacking this thread for my purposes, just looking to understand this a bit better, as I know little to nothing about speaker design.

If I am understanding this correctly, you get such a good result with this method because you have a custom built crossover that is designed specifically for that room? I guess my question is if I copied your crossover design with the same exact speakers but in the room I build, would I get a poor result?

Or is the magic in the fact that you can hand select the drivers and then ensure a custom crossover gives you a very smooth frequency response curve? That coupled with how you finished out the job very meticulously taking care of the room treatment to ensure a great sounding room?

(ps. sorry for digging up an older thread)

Thanks,
Aaron


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:45 am 
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Bhudie wrote:
Hey Eric,

First off, this is a very inspiring thread. Room looks great!!! I'm starting a build of my own in my new house reno, and this thread definitely piqued my interest as I'm currently trying to figure out the details of flush mounting my Dynaudio BM6As, but the DIYer in me thinks that this would be way cooler.

Not hijacking this thread for my purposes, just looking to understand this a bit better, as I know little to nothing about speaker design.

If I am understanding this correctly, you get such a good result with this method because you have a custom built crossover that is designed specifically for that room? I guess my question is if I copied your crossover design with the same exact speakers but in the room I build, would I get a poor result?


Hi Aaron,

I'm not guaranteeing anything, but the speakers would probably be fine flush mounted in most situations. I did measure the drivers in the box and the wall for extra accuracy, but most of the measurements were made, as you can see, at close range without the room having a lot of an effect. The furthest measurements in the design of the crossover were made from about 30".

My biggest concern would be that the RS225S-8 is no longer made. There is still the rs225-8 available that isn't too different though.

Bhudie wrote:
Or is the magic in the fact that you can hand select the drivers and then ensure a custom crossover gives you a very smooth frequency response curve? That coupled with how you finished out the job very meticulously taking care of the room treatment to ensure a great sounding room?

(ps. sorry for digging up an older thread)

Thanks,
Aaron


The honest answer is, I'm not sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Eric Best wrote:
This forum hasn't been active for a while. I have been away for about 5 years with the speakerbuilding crowd at the parts-express forum. There I have learned quite about speaker design, and designed and built a few of my own. There is some incredible software available for free to design phase coherent flat speakers (if that is what you want).

Most of the designs that people do include flush mount speakers. The problem is that most speakers are not designed to be flush mounted because the crossovers have what is called "baffle step compensation" designed into them. This is a 6db increase built into the crossover at a frequency determined by the width of the baffle. Barefoot designed a filter to compensate for this when a speaker is flush mounted.

I found that there are a lot of people DIYing a lot of very good speakers so I decided to take the plunge. I have now decided that the way for me to go, is to measure the drivers after they are in their baffles and mounted in the wall of the studio. There is very accurate software to do the simulations of how the different speakers will work together.

These are the drivers that I am using.

2 Dayton RS225s-8 [SPAM LINK REMOVED - SPAMMER BANNED]
[SPAM LINK REMOVED - SPAMMER BANNED]
2 Tang Band W4-1337 [SPAM LINK REMOVED - SPAMMER BANNED]
1 SB-Acoustics SB29RDC-C000-4 Ring Dome tweeter [SPAM LINK REMOVED - SPAMMER BANNED]

These speakers all match very well together. The system has an efficiency of 93dB it is flat to 1.5db from 40hz to 20khz. There is no padding in the crossover design! (some of the filters have done a little padding). This design is based on the manufactures frequency response graphs (except the midranges which were done by a very respected speaker designer).
The low end is simulated based on T/S parameters.

If you want to know how some typical studio monitors measure, you can go here for a reference.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/453697-interesting-testing-adam-s2a-krk-dynaudio-jbl-genelec.html

Here are my simulated graphs.


Here is one that has a 1dB scale
Attachment:
zoomed response.JPG


Here is one that shows the crossover response, the phase correlation and the nulls caused by a revers polarity that shows how well the phase tracks on the speakers.
Attachment:
response with phase and nulls.JPG

This is the crossover schematic.
Attachment:
Crossover schematic.JPG


Since the manufacturer's testing is done on an "infinite baffle" the measurements will hopefully match fairly well with what I end up with when I measure. But at least now I know well that these drivers will play well together.

Hi everyone. Thank you for sharing this with us! The information is important, thank you for sharing it. However, a question tricks me a little, I would like to expose it if it is possible. Thank you for your return.  Good luck to all.


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