John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Supey Studios Construction Thread

Hi my name is Chance. New first time homeowner, and now about to construct my very first garage studio.
Excited, scared, all the above.

I am yet another in a line of long time listeners / first time callers to Rod Gervais’ pretty incredible book. Upon reading and re-reading sections, I have a host of questions to make sure I’m doing things correctly. Rather, to make sure I'm understanding.

I’ll do my best to be both succinct as well as specific and detailed. This is a long initial post (obviously!), but I hope that people can just answer what they want.

For starters, my background:
I am in Los Angeles. Solo artist. Play most things myself. Write, record, mix, release.
Supey Studios is named after my dog of 18 years, Superchunk, who died two weeks ago. So, there’s a true emotional connection to all of this.

I am taking over about half of my 2.5 car garage. The total size of the studio (once the walls are constructed) will be about 11.5’x20’ (WxL). (The other half will be divided between laundry, and a painting studio; I paint as well).

I am NOT doing the work myself. I have contractors/handy guys and, while they do good work (they renovated part of my house already), they have never done a recording studio. So, I have been learning the book and will oversee the project in a very detail oriented fashion (perhaps close to micro-managed), in the hopes I get as much possible correct.

My studio’s goal:
My aim is to be able to track live drums (I’ve been a BFD guy for a long time) as well as live guitars and bass. So my main focus is low end isolation. It will be an all in one room.

When I’m not tracking I shall spend probably a majority of the time writing, arranging, mixing. The drums will be only after I’ve written the drum parts using BFD and have the drummer learn the part.

Through the course of this thread, I’ll do my best to divide in phases:
Walls, Windows, Ceilings, Doors, and Electrical. Some areas I understand more than others.

So, to that, I aim to construct a two leaf system on all the walls (complete isolation on all walls) using the existing garage walls for two of my walls, and therefore the first leaf of each wall.
Re ceilings and floors, well, here come my questions:

Walls:
I think I have this part figured out. Two leaf system (Double framed wall assembly where possible, staggered studs; original walls will have 2 layers of ⅝” drywall fit in between the studs with backer rod and caulking to seal in order to add mass to 1st leaf. R-13 insulation inside, and then the 2nd assembly. (the isolated wall, aka room within a room)

1. How to hold down the insulation? Staples? strapping tape? Does it matter?
2. Do I need something in between bottom of 2nd assembly’s frame and concrete slab? Like rockwool/stiff?
3. Is there a difference in types of caulk (that’s what she said) :Acoustic, butyl, regular (if there’s such a thing)?

Ceilings:
In an attempt to save money (unavoidable) as well as not sacrifice height (Preferable), my goal in theory is to do the ceiling with resilient channel, instead of independently isolated.

But, man oh man, I’m confused on how best to do this. Can I add mass to the ceiling, like I can to the walls? aka original ceiling, followed by two layers of ⅝” drywall, followed by insulation, followed by 2 layers of ⅝” drywall that is suspended by Resilient channel? Or is this not code compliant? (Rod’s book, page 284, “Dealing with Existing Roof Structures has confused me entirely on this point, but made me feel I can NOT do this). What then do I do?

I’ve downloaded what appears to be the proper installation instructions for RC, so I think I’m copacetic there.

1. 1st q: What kind of RC? I know it needs to be dual legged, but why am I only finding RC-8 when I google RC-2? Is RC-8 what I need? It may sound stupid, but I don’t want to assume anything.

2. 2nd question: is this the dreaded 3 leaf system?

3. IF I’m able to add mass to the ceiling, do I execute the same protocol with the original garage ceiling as I will with the walls: fitting the first two layers of gypsum in betwen the joists with a ⅜” gap for backer rod and caulk?

4 Questions for Rod or someone who is intimately familiar with his book:
- What is 1x3 support ledge for ceiling mean? (page 80. fig 4.23)

5. Insulation for the ceiling: R38? or R13?

6. GREEN GLUE:
Since at least as of this writing, I’ve not been convinced I definitely SHOULD isolate my ceiling (with an independent one), perhaps this is the one area I can afford to use green glue? I don’t know if I can afford to the entire studio.
So, 2 thumbs up for GG? Ok to only use it on ceiling to prioritize its usage? One tube per drywall segment ok? Or should I use more or less? (I’ve read 2 from their site, but even their own FAQ says 1 tube is ok).


The Floor:
I believe my garage is on a simple concrete slab. Reading Rod’s book there are a couple places I got a little confused as to whether I can get away with not floating the floor. A friend of mine who has built a few studios (will not be doing mine), told me that resonance would still go to the original walls of the garage and therefore be cause for concern. He suggested I float. Here is another place I’m trying to save budget on, but I understand his point.
Rod’s book (Figure 10.16, page 270) also mentions a possible scenario.

Easy question is: what say all of you? Float? not float? I’d love to just put flooring down directly on the cement) and save money, but I still want counterpoint discussion.

Windows:
I have this beautiful old 4 foot by 2 foot or so window that I’d love to keep in place for the outer leaf (existing wall). Is that a bad idea?
In theory I’d have the contractors design the window based on Rod’s specs (as much as possible anyway), with ¾” glass on the inside for the 2nd leaf framing. I just don’t want to be in a dark cubby hole, and having natural light is important.

Is this a bad idea? Even if the original window was reinforced/sealed etc? Can I keep it?

I also saw this pretty rad idea on a studio this woman did where she constructed a “plug”:
http://www.avocadoproductions.com/studi ... ction8.htm

A viable option? I could use this when recording drums, and then open up when I want to mix, which obviously won’t be as loud..

Electrical Considerations:
1. I intend to have small 3” recessed lighting installed for my general lighting. I’m thinking 7 or 8 (plus 3 hanging pendants over my mixing area). I have ZERO idea whether this is enough. It’s just a hunch. 230 sq feet. Thoughts? I do intend to have them on separate switches so I can control the ambiance.

2. Should I have my electrical outlets be “outside the wall” or recessed? I saw a friend’s studio had it outside, his reasoning that the hole in the drywall was that much smaller etc etc, less potential for audio to travel through the wall. Your thoughts?


Door ( Rod's book page 106 figure 5.6-5.7):
1. Super door, or 2 double solid core? I know Rod, prefers the Super door, but which is more cost effective?
2. If I go Super door, where on earth do you buy the 8psf sheet of lead that is to be attached to the solid core door?

This stuff is so overwhelming, but I’m doing my best! There will be more Qs as construction begins, but I aim to get most of it ironed out prior.

I am going to start soon, so any thoughts will be incredibly helpful. Very grateful for this forum. Look forward to your responses.

I am no expert and i am sure Stuart or one of the other experts will advise you will answer your post pretty soon,

The first thing that sticks out to me is that it sounds like you already have a garage so what is the build of the existing build, as you are possibly heading for a 3 or 4 leaf build at the moment?

Unless I have completely misunderstood you.

Hi Roguejackal, thanks so much for your question and heads up on Stuart et al.

I have an older garage where all the studs are visible. I'm guessing it was built in 1957 or so. Everything is visible, the joists in the ceiling, the main beams etc.

So, at least insofar as the walls, I'd be shoring up the existing walls (that I'm using: part of the north wall, and part of the east wall) with Rod Gervais' suggestion of cutting drywall to fit between the studs (3/8" gap with backer rod and caulking). That'd be leaf 1. And then an isolated wall assembly an inch inside that for the so called mass air mass.

Then, on the new walls (the south wall and the west wall). I'd be building both of those leafs from scratch. Two independent walls with the 2 layers of drywall on the outside of leaf 1 and inside (in relation to the room) of leaf 2.

Is that a 2 leaf system, or man have I been misunderstanding this?

BTW(I went old school and drafted my initial design using 11x17 drafting paper, so I'm looking to scan it somehow, if anyone needs to see it. But it's a basic rectangular room).

Here are example photos of the garage as it stands now.