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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas, USA
onpurposeproductions wrote:
I've been putting off thinking about ducting for the HRV and potential sound transmission. I just don't have a solid plan yet and I feel pretty ignorant even though I've been trying to read up a bunch. Silencers or not? Flexduct or insulated metal ducts?

I put together this plan as a starting point. You can see that I at least plan to split the supply and returns in order to have separate feeds to the control room and live room. The current thought is to use insulated flexduct and to create at least one right angle along each run. All duct runs would be in the attic as well as the HRV itself.

Any initial thoughts on this?


Flex duct is not a good choice for long runs as it has a high friction coefficient. A better choice is to fabricate out of ductboard or use insulated sheet metal ducts. My best advice is to keep researching until you thoroughly understand how a system goes together and what materials work best under what conditions. Then you can evaluate any recommendations by HVAC contractors based on your specific needs.

Reference: http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/DesignGuide ... ystems.pdf
http://www.bookmarki.com/Bob-s-House-Un ... 765373.htm
http://www.standexadp.com/install.htm
http://www.bookmarki.com/Manual-D-Resid ... 765500.htm
http://www.acca.org/store/product.php?pid=318
http://www.hvaccomputer.com/gtarget1.as ... DQod820_Qw
http://www.energy.ca.gov/efficiency/qua ... dures.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hvac- ... -t_23.html
http://ducts.lbl.gov/
http://www.toolbase.org/ToolbaseResourc ... tegoryID=6

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas, USA
onpurposeproductions wrote:
I also started building the wall to go up in front of the garage door. I'm building it in two sections. Its just standing up against the wall unattached for now (except for a couple screws to make sure it doesn't crack my head open).

My HVAC guy will likely be installing all the flexduct, wiring, etc in the next couple weeks. I need to have the cable company out to determine what will be involved in getting a coax run into the garage (this carries my internet as well as phone). I hope to run it up through the soffit into the attic and then down through the ceiling in the equipment room. I'm contemplating a conduit run for this......but still contemplating.


Make sure you use pressure treated lumber and a foam seal under the bottom plates or anywhere else wood contacts concrete. Wood + concrete = rot.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:19 am 
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Posts: 192
Location: Ontario, Canada
Sandersd wrote:
Flex duct is not a good choice for long runs as it has a high friction coefficient. A better choice is to fabricate out of ductboard or use insulated sheet metal ducts. My best advice is to keep researching until you thoroughly understand how a system goes together and what materials work best under what conditions. Then you can evaluate any recommendations by HVAC contractors based on your specific needs.

Reference: http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/DesignGuide ... ystems.pdf
http://www.bookmarki.com/Bob-s-House-Un ... 765373.htm
http://www.standexadp.com/install.htm
http://www.bookmarki.com/Manual-D-Resid ... 765500.htm
http://www.acca.org/store/product.php?pid=318
http://www.hvaccomputer.com/gtarget1.as ... DQod820_Qw
http://www.energy.ca.gov/efficiency/qua ... dures.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hvac- ... -t_23.html
http://ducts.lbl.gov/
http://www.toolbase.org/ToolbaseResourc ... tegoryID=6


Hi Sanders,

Thanks for chimmin' in and for the great links. I did wrestle with whether or not to use the flexduct. I have discussed with my contractor the issue of increased back-pressure due to sagging of the duct, and the possibility of the HRV automatically switching up to a higher setting as a result. He also spoke to the supplier about my particular install and special requirements. As of right now, I feel okay about going ahead with it but since my contractor just went away for two weeks I've got some time to examine things a little more - I'm definitely going to read through those links!

- Greg

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:24 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Sandersd wrote:
Make sure you use pressure treated lumber and a foam seal under the bottom plates or anywhere else wood contacts concrete. Wood + concrete = rot.


Well - I ended up using the foam strip but I didn't use pressure-treated lumber for the foot plate. I probably should have.

I GOT MY PERMIT TODAY!!!!!

Man! It took 3 incredibly frustrating and nerve-racking months but now its all official! :D :D

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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:24 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Update!

It's been far too long since I last posted and I have achieved a few things. Here's pics and descrips;

Pic 1&2 - Because the existing door at the back of the garage opens into the room I had to raise it to get the subfloor installed. But since I'll be building a frame that spans the outer and inner walls (inner walls not built yet) I ended up pulling out the door and frame, raising it and putting the existing door back on temporarily. The sill was actually leaking pretty bad before and getting the surrounding studs wet on the inside so I also fixed that while I was at it. I then also finished off the drywall 'beef' and insulation in the surrounding stud cavities.

Pics 3,4,5&6 - In order to cut out the new doorway on the side of the garage, which will be the main entrance, I had to excavate an area on the outside and install a retaining wall. Before and after pics. I'll be putting down some flagstone and we'll pretty things up with some planters on top of the wall.

More to follow....


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:13 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
and more....

Pics 1-3 - After supporting the ceiling truss temporarily I cut out the opening for the new doorway with a reciprocating saw for the wood and circular saw with masonry blade for the cinder block. I scored the block and then hammered it out. On the one side I broke out too much block and had to fill it back in with mortar.

You can also see the finished outer leaf wall in front of the garage door. And the Dricore subfloor system just went in recently with the help of a friend. I'll likely use tapcom screws in places where its not down snug on the concrete. There's a 1/4" gap around the perimeter where I plan to put backer rod and acoustic caulk before building the inner leaf walls.

Pics 4-6 - The HVAC contractor installed the HRV in the attic as well as the flexduct (which I decided to stick with) and the rough runs for the mini-split. They put the intake and exhaust ports in the gable end of the attic. I plan on building a silencer box to go on both the supply and exhaust ports of the live room but not on the ports for the control room. I'll be posting my plans shortly to get some feedback.

more to come.... :D


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:16 am 
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looking good :)


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:49 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
John Sayers wrote:
looking good :)


Hey, thanks John!

More pics and descrips;

Pics 1&2 - Just yesterday I cut out and built an attic access door in the gable end (access from exterior) for servicing the HRV. It still needs to be painted, weatherstripped, trimmed and caulked on the outside and a doorstop on the inside. Having the access point in the gable end means I don't have to penetrate my layers of soundproofing :wink:

Pics 3&4 - This is the design of the silencer box that I'll likely be building very soon. I would build two, putting one on each port in the live room. The second pic attempts to show how I plan to position them. Half of the trap is above the outer leaf with the flexduct attaching directly into the side. The bottom would be flush with the lower edge of the inner ceiling studs so that the finish drywall would actually go right up against the bottom of the trap. The dimensions of the trap makes a 14"x14" square which allows it to sit in between the 16"OC inner ceiling studs without touching them. I'll likely use 1/2" OSB for the outside of the box and 5/8" duct liner covering the inside.

Honestly, I've wondered whether I actually need the silencers or not. The flexduct isn't going to carry sound well at all and there is quite a bit of length with many bends as it is. And of course, adding the silencer would really increase the restriction of air flow which may result in the HRV having to switch to its 'high' speed. I'm not really concerned with leakage from the live room to the control room but rather leakage from the live room outside. But I just don't know....Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:48 am 
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pics and descrips (sorry for the blurry pics :oops: );

1. I Installed a flexible conduit (FlexPlus Blue ENT) through the soffit on the exterior, through the attic space and ending at what will be my equipment room. This conduit is for the cable company to run their coaxial line into the studio for phone and internet.

2. I completed the attic access door.

3-5. I built the duct silencer boxes using 1/2" OSB and 1/2" duct liner.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:12 am 
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and more.....

1. I temporarily installed one of the silencers and powered up the HRV to test airflow. True to what I've heard, the HRV is essentially silent when on its low speed. And I was really happy with the velocity of flow on the exhaust port, which is what I hooked the silencer up to. :yahoo:

I think I might wrap the silencers in 2 layers of drywall on all sides once they're fully installed. That should minimize sound traveling through the walls of the silencer into the attic, and out to my neighbors.

2. I got the 13 sheets of OSB and 26 sheets of drywall required to close in the ceiling. That's going to be a lot of work and it starts in about 5 minutes!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:07 am 
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Looking Good. where did you buy the duct liner from?? I having trouble finding it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
petrovinksy wrote:
Looking Good. where did you buy the duct liner from?? I having trouble finding it.


North York Plumbing & Heating in Aurora. They have 4' wide rolls of 1/2" and 1" in their shop for their own use. I don't think they usually sell it to the public. They charged me $2.00 per square foot and I needed 12.

I'm sure one of the larger plumbing and heating shops in Hamilton should have some.....

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:01 am 
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moving right along.....

Pic 1. The OSB starts going in. I tried to make my cuts a tight fit so I often had to use a planer shave edges here and there.

Pic 2. Since I was a one-man crew putting up the OSB I put together this simple frame to hold up one end of the sheet while I held and screwed the other. Worked like a charm!

Pic 3. Gettin' there. I sanded down the edges of the duct cut-outs and wrapped them in aluminum tape to protect the flex duct.

Pic 4. I ended up covering the portion of the silencers that would be above my outer leaf with one layer of drywall.

Pic 5. Once the OSB was up I caulked around the bottom edge with acoustical caulk.

Pic 6. Done!

I wasn't planning on caulking any of this layer but there are a few large gaps that I'll probably fill with some backer rod and caulk before starting on the drywall layers.

One thing I really noticed while closing in the ceiling was how hot it gets in the attic when the sun is out. WOW! It made me wonder whether I should be adding a couple more vents in the outermost layer of the ceiling. There's only one currently for the just under 400 sq ft garage....I mean....studio :) I'll possibly add these from the outside the first time the shingles are replaced.

That also made me wonder how much coolness will be lost through the run of refrigerant pipe that runs approx. 15 ft. through the attic? Although it is wrapped in an insulator...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:32 am 
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Looks great, Im in the same process of putting my OSB up now too, and cutting around those damn trusses, sure does get hot up there huh? Loving the silencer too, u have inspired me to do my own, great work.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:43 am 
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Hey Luv,

Thanks a lot for the kind words. I've read through your thread as well - you've got an amazing space and I dig your layout. I had really been hoping for a space more that size but compromised in order to stay within town. Ultimately I feel incredibly blessed with what I've got.

Yeah - cutting that OSB to fit snug between the studs was fun! Are you working mostly by yourself as well?

Actually, In cutting the OSB I encountered my first consequence of buying cheap tools (I noticed you have a sweet Dewalt miter saw). My Ryobi 7.5" handheld circular saw started going all wobbly during cuts making it impossible to cut a straight edge. I've only had it since Christmas! I had to switch to my Ryobi jigsaw (also the cheapest I could get :roll: ) about 1/3 the way through the job. Oh well.....you do what you can.

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