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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Hi everyone

a bit of time have passed since my last post… well, after a nice longish break in Italy I'm back with my (never ending - or at least it seems so) build…
...so to pick up from where I left in (more or less) chronological order:

- I attached noggins (these little guys)
Attachment:
IMG_2322.jpg
all around where the rear lights will be and around the hooks to attach the clouds:
in the CR
Attachment:
CR noggins tot.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2387.jpg


in the LR
Attachment:
LR noggins tot.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2432.jpg


I then filled in with insulation the front superchunk
Attachment:
IMG_2396.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2404.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2408.jpg


then I placed rockwool slabs between ceiling beams:
Control Room
Attachment:
front CR.jpg

Attachment:
rear CR.jpg

Attachment:
CR rockwool tot.jpg


same on Live room
Attachment:
IMG_2445.jpg


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Last edited by simo on Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:36 pm 
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...update part-2


Door time (finally!):
all door frames are 35mm hardwood (sapele). Same wood was used for the window frames (a bit thinner though).
Attachment:
IMG_2478.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2487.jpg

The two doors in the control room have two sets of stops
Attachment:
IMG_2619.jpg

The doors were made with two layers of 22mm MDF and an additional layer of 18mm MDF (smaller all around apart the bottom to create the bank-vault type of closure), hardwood on both edges of the doors, both faces oak veneered.
Attachment:
IMG_2479.jpg

The door of the live room and toilet have been made with the same construction but without the 18mm MDF layer in front of it
and so their frames have one set of stops



Now, on the seals:
All the doors have (drop-down) Bottom seal mortised in the door.
The rubber drop down to close the gap between the lower edge of the door and the door frame, as soon as the plunger on the side hit the jamb (you can regulate how much the rubber seal drops by changing how much the plugger is sticking out with a screwdriver)
Attachment:
Door Bottom Seal.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2056.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2483.jpg

This is the seal I used for the head and jamb on every door
Attachment:
Frame Seal.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2846.jpg
You can still regulate how much the rubber is sticking out, or how much it gets compressed when the door closes by adjusting the little screws on its back (I like this feature as it easy to install as you regulate the seal after the installation and also you can tight them up if they get loose in a few years time by just turning a few screws)



Obviously for such heavy doors, heavy duty door closers are needed
Attachment:
IMG_2850.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2848.jpg


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:46 pm 
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...update part-3


I cut three 9mm MDF sheets into 50mm strips, then built the frames for the cloth to cover the inside-out ceiling.

The process has been:
- place the mdf strips over the ceiling beams, temporarily pin them so they didn't move and staple them together
Attachment:
IMG_2459.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2682.jpg

- give it a quick coat of black paint on the small areas that won't be covered with cloth (i.e. the frames around the hooks to hold the ceiling clouds and the spot lights at the rear of the room)
Attachment:
IMG_2691.jpg

- take the mdf frames down
Attachment:
IMG_2719.jpg

- staple the cloth on their back
Attachment:
IMG_2541.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2526.jpg

- and then put them back up for good.



To hide the nail's head, I first hammered it half way in, then chopped its head with cutting pliers, hammered it fully in, then used a sawing needle to pull the cloth back out for a smoother finish
Attachment:
IMG_2534.jpg




I placed an insect mesh over the fresh air and stale air out nozzles, to avoid insects travelling in and out (or at least to make their lives a bit harder!).
Attachment:
IMG_2611.jpg




I put a thin plastic sheet over the rockwool (before placing the cloth frames over it), in order to avoid having too much high-frequency absorption making the room sound too dull.
Attachment:
IMG_2529.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2609.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2714.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2715.jpg


…well, that's all for now…

Ciao!

Simo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:41 am 
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Looking good, Simo! Very good. I liked the way you hid the finish nails, too. Very neat idea.

- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:17 am 
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Speaker case & Soffit construction Part-1

This was the old speaker case I built when I was still planning to go with the duct+vent design.
Attachment:
IMG_2510.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_1967.jpg

I already posted the plan before, but here it is again just to make it easier to understand:
Attachment:
Simo speaker case 1.jpg


I then decided to go down another route and to pull out the amp behind the speaker (Genelec 1031A) instead, and extend their connection in order to have the amp in the room (to have the option of changing settings and/or service it at any time), instead of it being "trapped" inside the soffit.


Thus, I had to build another box (smaller, as in that case it doesn't need the space behind the speaker with the top and bottom openings):
Attachment:
IMG_2501.jpg

lined with a 6mm sorbothane sheet all around
Attachment:
IMG_2513.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2522.jpg

Then I attached a plywood plate below the speaker case that you see here upside down (with another layer of 6mm sorbothane sandwiched between them)
Attachment:
IMG_2781.jpg

which is wider than the box itself, in order to be able to screw it to the plane it is resting to
Attachment:
IMG_2784.jpg


Then it was time to connect the speaker cabinet with the amp, before adding the front baffle plate.

New connections @ the speaker's end
Attachment:
IMG_2764.jpg

and this is the cable for the connection.
Following Genelecs' advice, I used a cable with a greater section to compensate for the longer run and to maintain the speaker's frequency response
Attachment:
IMG_2767.jpg

Connection made (these connectors are very sturdy and almost impossible to pull out by accident…. in fact to disconnect one it took me around 15 sec of twisting it :-) ).
I gave it a good squeeze with pliers and then applied heat shrinks to cover the connection further
Attachment:
IMG_2776.jpg


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Last edited by simo on Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:23 am 
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Speaker case & Soffit construction Part-2:


I did a quick test to check that everything was connected properly before adding the plywood baffle plate
Attachment:
IMG_2788.jpg

All ok ! … I passed the cable through the frame to have it coming out at the bottom, and cover it back with the 100mm rockwool
Attachment:
IMG_2791.jpg

I framed all around the speaker box to keep it firm…It's quite tight and that thing will have some problems to vibrate !
Attachment:
IMG_2808.jpg

I cut the left over sorbothane sheet in strips 50mm wide (same as the frame surrounding the speaker box) and sandwiched them between the box and the frame.
Attachment:
IMG_2810.jpg

These strips in addition to the sorbothane layer below the case should help to damp some more vibrations. My attempt was to have 2 sets of decoupling:
- speaker with the case
- case with the surrounding frame
I mean, I'm not 100% sure this will actually work but I had some leftovers of this NOT cheap material, so I thought I'd give it a try and use it… it shouldn't do any harm I guess :-)

I filled in the cavity with fluffy insulation
Attachment:
IMG_2815.jpg

Added rockwool between the studs
Attachment:
IMG_2824.jpg

Front plywood baffle plate attached
Attachment:
IMG_2829.jpg

the baffle doesn't touch the speaker case as well, but it stops 5mm off it (you can see the sorbothane underneath)
Attachment:
IMG_2889.jpg


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:35 am 
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Speaker case & Soffit construction Part-3:

Before cutting the holes for the speakers on the veneered MDF finish, I made a template (using the same 10mm MDF strips I used for the cloth frames on the ceiling) to give me a precise guide of the cuts…I will recycle them for some more cloth frames after I finish this job
Attachment:
IMG_2883.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2885.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2888.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2894.jpg

Even the MDF finish does not touch the speaker box (hopefully still keeping it decoupled)
Attachment:
IMG_2896.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_2907.jpg

The oak trims finally close the gap between the case and the soffit.
These are touching just the plywood speaker case behind them (nailed to)
Attachment:
IMG_2911.jpg

and they are literally 1-2mm from the MDF plate
Attachment:
IMG_2914.jpg


I'm planning to cover the screw heads for a smoother finish by cutting plugs from the veneered MDF off cuts using a plug cutter…this is a quick test I made just to see how the result could be…from a fair distance the plug is not too obvious.
Attachment:
IMG_2899.jpg

Also I noticed that if you pay attention in matching the colour of the plug with the area it is going to, the result can be acceptable :-)
So that with a bit of more practice, sanding and another quick coat of clear varnish should do it I hope :-)
But I'm going to leave these cosmetic touches to the end of the build as it's a bit time consuming and to be honest I rather crack on with more important stuff at the moment...




QUESTION (I already asked this before, but didn't get an answer…so here it is again :-) ) :

I'm planning to extend the superchunk at the front of the CR....
this is how I was thinking:
Attachment:
IMG_2907_2.jpg

...basically using all that space that seems a shame not to cover with nice itchy insulation :twisted:
Attachment:
IMG_2895.jpg

My only concern is:
Would that compromise somehow the speaker soffit at all? as I would have to attach some sort of small frame to the front MD baffle in order to have something to attached the cloth frame to?

Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated !

Many Thanks


Ciao
Simo


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:06 am 
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Hi Simone--

I wouldn't presume to know the proper answer to your question (sounds like a good idea to me, though), but I just wanted to take a minute to complement you on your build. I've been following it from the beginning, and your attention to detail is something I can only aspire to. Every time I see a that you've made a new entry on your thread, I eagerly open it to see what you've done. So anyway, kudos to you!

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:10 am 
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Thanks a lot for your nice comment Mark, very kind of you and much appreciated !

As a matter of fact I am following your build too… you are doing a fantastic job!…and being stickied :D by John himself is definitely a proof of that ! love this place where we can all learn from each other. Keep up the good work :thu: !!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:46 am 
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I wish I could work half as neatly as you do, Simo! Your work is actually disgustingly good! :) It makes me jealous... It just looks so darn GOOD!

Quote:
Then I attached a plywood plate below the speaker case that you see here upside down (with another layer of 6mm sorbothane sandwiched between them)
...
These strips in addition to the sorbothane layer below the case should help to damp some more vibrations. My attempt was to have 2 sets of decoupling:
- speaker with the case
- case with the surrounding frame
There might be an issue with that, but hopefully not. That's basically the same as a 3-leaf wall: You have mass (the speaker) a spring (the sorbothane around the speaker) mass (the box) another spring (the sorbothane under the speaker), and mass (the soffit structure). So there might be a resonance issue there, but with seeing that you used sorbothane, I think you might be OK there.

One way to tell is to play very slow sine sweeps over the speaker while touching the speaker cabinet gently with one finger, touching the box around the speaker with another finger, and touching the structure with one more finger: as the sine sweeps up through the spectrum, you might notice some frequencies where only the speaker is vibrating, and others where the box is also vibrating at the same time, but there should be none at all where you can also feel the structure itself vibrating.

Another way is to use a stethoscope on the structure while playing sine sweeps: if there are some frequencies that you hear much louder on the stethoscope, then you have a resonance issue.

Hopefully that isn't the case.

Quote:
I gave it a good squeeze with pliers and then applied heat shrinks to cover the connection further
Your attention to detail is amazing!


Quote:
I'm planning to extend the superchunk at the front of the CR....
this is how I was thinking:
Yup! That's how I would do it.

Quote:
Would that compromise somehow the speaker soffit at all? as I would have to attach some sort of small frame to the front MD baffle in order to have something to attached the cloth frame to?
Not a problem. That is so far away from the speaker that it wont cause any harm.

- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Just cuzin' through the forum ...

Simo ... your workmanship and attention to detail shows in the beauty of what you are creating. Your build thread has been a pleasure to follow and learn from.

Just wanted to let you know, I join others here in admiring your build !

Sincerely.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:50 pm 
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Thanks so much Stuart and RJ… really kind of you both!!!

Stuart - Thanks a lot for pointing that out.
To be honest I started panicking when I read your post :-), but it was too late to start the test…so after a veeery long night :oops: first thing this morning I did the test you suggested
Attachment:
IMG_2919.jpg
with the sine sweep + touching the speaker, the box (I removed the trims to do that) and the front baffle.

OK, there were a few frequencies where I could feel vibrations, more precisely around:
50Hz - just the speaker
55Hz - speaker and perhaps the box too, not the baffle
158Hz - perhaps all three
260Hz - perhaps all three
no other vibrations above that

Now, I'm saying "perhaps all three" because I was playing back the sine waves quite loud and all these vibrations were barely noticeable in the area around the speaker. They weren't by any means making the whole baffle vibrate (hopefully, as you hypothesised, using the sorbothane is contributing to reduce the problem?)

Still in a state of panic, I started playing some music at even louder volume, hip hop with lots of low end…. well, I have to admit I could definitely feel the kick drum while touching the baffle! :cen:
But then I started moving around the room and touching any hard surface I could find… again I could feel some faint vibrations here and there, surprisingly even on the studs forming the rear hanger traps ( :ahh: ???).

So, now I'm confused and worried at the same time as there is no way I could dismantle the whole studio (both for the time I've got left available and more importantly for my mental sanity :asth: !), and I'm not even sure I could do it any better than what I did so far…
What about if I dismantle the whole thing, remove the extra sorbothane, re-assemble it and the problem is still there, perhaps even worse as these slight vibrations are not down to it?…I would have to re-dismantle and re-assemble it once more to take it back to the where I started… and then finally go and kill myself, if of course, by that time I'm not already dead having had gone through that whole painful process :evil:

On this matter, several times I happened to notice structure vibrations when doing loud sessions at the studio I work, where even the ssl and the rack bay were vibrating slightly....so I'm puzzled if is it even possible to keep a 1.2m x 1.8m panel (forming the baffle) right next to the sound source from not vibrating even slightly while playing back loud low frequencies, when even smaller surfaces meters away from it do vibrate as well? (it's not a critical comment…I'm truly curious!)
…perhaps with a much bigger budget that would be achievable, who knows…

And at the end of the day - in the hard attempt to console myself - the music I was playing during the test was honestly sounding very good indeed…much better than I ever hear those tunes. So what I'm saying is that what I got so far (even at this unfinished stage) is already a big improvement from my previous listening environment (my bedroom), so I'm gonna stick with it, keep trying all in my power to make it even better and ultimately hope for the best :-)

Thanks a lot for watching my back - don't know what I'd do without it !

Simo


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:40 pm 
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Simo - I have found that the idea of the box around the speaker is to nail it down tight, to make the speaker box become part of the much bigger and more rigid structure that you've built around it so I slide the speaker in with 1mm tolerance all round.

cheers
john

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:06 am 
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Thanks for the reply John !!

I did screw the box down to the plane it's resting, see here:
Attachment:
IMG_2784 edit.jpg
for the very same reason you are describing, that is to make the speaker become integral part of the surrounding structure (a bit like creating a much bigger speaker cabinet, by extending the real one).

and the speaker protrudes from the front baffle just about 1mm.

…hope I haven't misunderstood your comment ( :oops: ), and that it puts me back on the right path :-)


thanks for the help !!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:56 am 
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I'd replace the 6mm sorbothane around the speaker box with 6mm MDF glued in it's place - then slide the speaker into a tight fit.

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