John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Does anyone have experience putting a hard floor over carpet? I'm considering putting something over most of the carpeted area since I found out on this very forum that carpeting my music room floor was a bad idea, but I want to avoid damaging the carpet.

If I do this, I'm considering putting 2x2 down to act as joists, then screw plywood subflooring into that and cover with something simple like linoleum.

How badly does this idea suck? If very, what are some alternatives?

Thanks.

Tim

You might just be able to lay thick plywood or OSB directly on top of the carpet, and put your flooring on top of that. Not sure if that would be OK. Brien can probably give you a thumbs up or thumbs down on that. But I certainly would not build any type of frame! You don't want any air gap under the plywood!


- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

OK. Does the air gap create a different acoustic problem, or do you think it could lead to a moisture problem under the new plywood? The problem with laying plywood directly on the carpet is that it will still give a bit, so adjacent pieces won't be level.

The problem with any air gap on the other side of any large and reasonably rigid, reasonably massive surface is that it creates a resonant system that will resonate in sympathy with certain notes, thus sucking energy out of the room for those. That's the basis of how a panel trap works (membrane trap). So if you place your plywood over a wooden frame, basically you are creating a drum head for your floor: It will "ring" at it's own natural resonant frequency, and all related harmonics. It's not a good idea to build a room on top of a drum head!

There would only be a moisture problem if you already have a moisture problem!

Why? What is under the carpet that might give? If it's a concrete floor, then there's no reason why it would give. If it is a wooden floor of some type, supported on joists that give, then it will give anyway, regardless of how you put the plywood deck on top. If you have a concrete subfloor, and you build the deck itself correctly, then there won't be any problem with it giving. We are talking about two layers of 3/4" plywood here, laid crosswise with respect to each other, and screwed together, so there would have to be one very large load to make that lot give!

But the big question is: Why not just take out the carpet? If it was installed properly, then it should be possible to take it out without causing too much damage to it.


- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

2 layers of plywood laid crossways so no seams match makes sense. I was imagining only one layer in my framed scenario. Not looking to put my drummer out of a job, though.

As far as removing the fairly new carpet, I may come to that conclusion but I want to exhaust other possibilities. If I have a reasonable chance of remedying my problem without damaging the carpet, I'd rather explore that.

"As far as removing the fairly new carpet, I may come to that conclusion but I want to exhaust other possibilities."

Guess what happens to fairly new carpet when you cover it...and penetrate it with fasteners? It becomes fairly useless carpet with holes in it with no redeeming qualities.

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Brien Holcombe
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Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

I never had any intention of putting fasteners through the carpet. No worries, though. I'm going to take Ethan Winer's suggestion and put pieces of plywood on the carpet just during recording and mixing.

To be fair, what your remedy is has nothing to do with the topic you started.

It is a pretty easy control device to place a hard barrier (plywood or MDF or OSB) underneath the microphone to remove the mid range absorption of the carpet.

It is something different altogether to ask "Does anyone have experience putting a hard floor over carpet?"

The short answer is this. When you take carpet and encapsulate it with upper and lower hard boundaries, you trap this material, now if it has been there for some time, the ability to trap contaminants is high.

The acoustic side is that you reduce the TL of this floor because you introduce a small air space, and the flanking you introduce is not going to help you.

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Brien Holcombe
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Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

My attempted goal remains the same as when I posted the original question - keep the carpet intact, but create a non permanent hard surface for recording/mixing. I came up with a crackpot plan as a remedy, but I said up front I didn't know if it was a good idea. As soon as I got the responses from soundman2020 about the resonance problem created by the air gap, I dropped that idea and started asking about others. I think the EW plywood idea is similar to what soundman suggested, only more easily moved when needed.

If this forum is for pro/semi-pro studio owners or musicians, I probably made a mistake posting here. I thought it was also for people like me who are just starting to learn about acoustics. My room has been perfectly fine for band or solo practice. Recording and mixing will be limited to a few weeks at a time with long stretches in between. That's why I can't justify ripping up $700 worth of fairly new carpet and spending another $400-500 on hardwood. EW's comment about temporarily using plywood seemed tailor made for people in my situation. I understand that I shouldn't leave anything like that on the carpet for long.

Thanks.

Another option might be to do a "drum riser" type of thing, where the plywood deck would sit on top of a layer of 703, or something similar. Try searching the forum for "drum riser", and see if there's something that might work for you.


- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

Thanks, soundman. I'll check it out. I have a related question, but I need to think it through a bit before I post.

Tim

"I thought it was also for people like me who are just starting to learn about acoustics."

Learning is an 8 letter word, it does not happen in one session.

It is like this. You crawl, you walk. You run. You fall. You get up. You walk with caution.

There is no quick fix...learning is a difficult process...

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Brien Holcombe
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Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

Holy Frijole! Where have I indicated that I expect to learn everything about acoustics at once? I stated clearly that I'm just starting to learn. I even asked if I had joined a pro forum by mistake.

Mistake or no, you are being coached by professionals who adhere to the professionalism that John Sayers is.

I recognize this seems like an easy question/answer session to you, but it never is.

Never, or at least seldom.

And I stick by what I said, you do not want to encapsulate the carpet. Now if all you are trying to do is add some reflection that this carpet has reduced, yes, do that with a piece of hard (pick your poison) it really does not matter what it is. The goal is to terminate the absorption of the carpet and get some reflections back although reflections from the floor in a poorly designed room only record the poorly designed rooms response...so everything matters

Pull up the carpet....pull up the carpet and use area rugs if needed and add a soft ceiling/cloud for this room that we know nothing about other than it has carpet.

Your options are now exhausted.

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Brien Holcombe
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Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

Yup, that's how it sounded to me, too. Thanks.