John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Yes - agreed - Been reading many articles about the VP and all seem to indicate the same ( except the ones that don't).

Yet here I am, framed up - no barrier (see pictures). Framing off the wall by a 1" or so. I could sneak plastic up between I guess. Glue it, nail it, staple it, whatever. Best to adhere to the surface as tight and close as possible I believe.

Many recommend pink (or blue) board glue solidly and thoroughly to the block wall surface. Too late for that I guess.

Plus the NE Patriots lost so... Not real happy.

But thanks for the continued support in this endeavor.

Just to open another can of worms - in the adjacent room I am trying to seal up for isolating purposes, previous owner installed standard fiberglass insulation and jammed sheet rock between joists. Pretty sloppy work but, I was originally thinking of just adding resilient channel across there joists and hanging sheet rock from that.

Basically being lazy and not wanting to rip out all that sheet rock and insulation. Would leaving it up there create a problem?

Sir, when John Sayers has issue with my thinking, he brings it to me

Here is the thing about what we do here in a nut shell. We each have varied interests, abilities and doubts about the projects we view.

Stuart had some doubts about something in your build, he is a qualified acoustics technician...but we here do not limit our selves to this area...since we each understand that this has to be taken as a whole build in order for it to be a healthy build.

No one here would no more allow you to install a 2X4 spanning 15 feet with 7.5 pounds of weight per square foot than they would allow a three leaf to go unmentioned or fire hazardous carpet to be placed on the walls.

Does that mean it is acoustics to you...because it does not to me, it means watching a brothers back.

Now you might think this is all acoustics, or voodoo in some nature, but I have to say this right before I walk out that door you opened for me.

It is not. Not today. It may have used to been just like that but with every Tom Dick and Harry attempting to do what not only they often have no ability to do, but coupling that with the acoustic side that many also have no understanding of, those days are gone.

If you would have asked me about the Patriots ability to get past Eli's NFL record ability to come back in the forth quarter I would have informed you that your money should not go on the Pats, who are a dieing dynasty beaten twice in four years by...the Giants.

But you did ask about something I know much about. So I will tell you this. You do not get to hold me in PM or suggest that maybe I need to pay more attention to things that "matter", I know what matters ... everything matters.

You still seem to be of the mind that you can install something that resembles a vapor barrier on the inside of this wall assembly and have it perform correctly, and to that I will tell you what I already have told you at length...it will produce an unhealthy environment, reduce your environment to rot and rust in short order...and this is information that few can or will give you for what you paid for it.

We understand each other a little better now, I would hope, and you still have issues that you have not even addressed, but I cannot tolerate you telling me how I am supposed to perform my duties on this forum.

Thank you for asking,

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Brien Holcombe
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Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

I only PM'ed because I thought maybe the subject was not relevant to the forum and that you guys as moderators would not want long threads on subjects not really related to studio design so much as construction techniques. My bad I guess.

Just so I am not mixing up what is meant by interior side of framing, etc. I went ahead and did a quick sketch of what I believe Brien is saying would be the best solution in my case.

Edit - added channel to image. This is more or less what I am thinking along the block wall that are foundation. Would this be the proper way to install barrier and RC-8 type channel? My thought was to screw first sheetrock layer (5/8"), then glue the next (1/2") at different seams.

Attempting to get a decent layout finalized. With the space and windows/ obstructions I can't seem to find a happy solution for a symmetrical mixing area. Below is an attempt but, really lose a lot of space this way. The end users are looking to do a lot of "beat" creation and vocal recording for hip hop music. I believe they plan to spend lots of time in the mixing area together. It is just too small for two people like this.

I will make a few more attempts but, my window for thinking this thing out is slowly closing (apogees for the over abundance of posting). Hammer, nails and caulk gun beckon.

Please understand my deep appreciation for all the information on this website and the feedback. Even the advice about the NY Giants football team.

Is there any reason why you can't use more of the area? There seems to be a LOT of space around the area you are working in. Is there a reason why you are only looking at that specific area?

The plan you have there in your latest post is unworkable: You might have symmetry, but the layout is not usable as a control room.

Is it necessary to have the vocal booth so large? Could it be smaller?

- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

Yes - this last attempt at symmetry doesn't do any good.

If you mean why not in the adjacent area to the left of the I beam in the images - that is slated as a bedroom.

IF you mean the area further to the bottom of the images (right of I beam) - starts getting into drains and mechanical area.

The vocal booth does not need to be nearly as big.

Note that I am looking to avoid soffits around I beam and HVAC ducting by placing the double walls far apart (1.5 feet) - seems smarter than all that ugly soffit drops and box framing, however, it does take away space.I am also attempting to re route some cold air return lines to create more space.

The more I look at things the more I think the left side of the I beam needs to be utilized. This is the nuclear option in that at this rental property we are adding a bedroom and a bathroom to increase rent. Studio idea was an afterthought by tenant/building manager who has a big bedroom upstairs jammed full of stuff.

Using full space - something like this is possible (first crack at it).

Makes for a much nicer set up by far.

Edit - added a more detailed layout - The desk is set up facing a window. That window was recently install (to comply as an egress window) and is fairly standard duel pane window. Don't really think I can add an inner window as this needs to be an accessible fire escape window.

How about if you put the bedroom in the area where you were originally planning the studio, to the right of the beam, and do all of the studio to the left (including the booth)? The bedroom will be a bit smaller, but still usable, and the studio will fit much better on the other side. I'd put the vocal booth at the far end, and then the CR.

I think it makes more sense like that.


- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

I don't think the right of the beam will work as a bedroom. For one thing it won't be legal without an egress window access. I suppose someone could always throw a cot in where I drew the drums and no one would know.

I was going to have a hard time maintaining the code required 7 feet ceiling once I started adding resilient type channel or any extra layers of sheet rock anyway. I have only got 85" at most spots.

I guess I will need to make a decision. I am thinking it will be best to just turn the whole thing into studio space but, try to maintain some resemblance of a normal bedroom shape. So that later it can converted back to living space with out a complete teardown.

You seem to be saying split the bigger area left of the beam into a CR and a vocal room. Would this be preferred over as I have it layer out in this last one? (i.e. with vocal room and drum room right of beam and larger mix room left of the beam). I was sort of liking the layout with the desk facing the window. Just need to work out some angle details and proper placement of speaker soffits, etc.

I really appreciate your help on this. This space has some issues but with some decent finish work it could be a pretty nice area.

Previous owners took out cross bridging, jammed fiberglass insulation and covered with drywall between the joists. I guess I know the answer already but, is there any way to minimize the effort here without creating problems? Can any of this be used as is?

- Well guess I might as well tear it all out.

I can start clean and do it as indicated in Mr. Gervals book = install some drywall against bottom of flooring between joists, caulk it up and secure with ledger board, re install bridging, add insulation and THEN install channel and sheet rock. (What is backer rod?)

Unless someone sees a way to leave this all up there and magically achieve a decent result?

One other conundrum is the distance between where I plan to have control room wall installed and vocal booth wall installed. My thinking was to avoid soffits and strange framing by having one wall on one side of existing beam and ducting and the other wall on the other side. This puts a space of about a 1'6" between walls. This large gap might actually improve isolation (or cause some weird resonance!) but it is making for some strange door arrangements. Really requires a small (1'6" ) airlock /hall section between the two doors. This is why I thought I could get two doors with large glass in place of solid doors and double window. The 1"6" space would make for a weird window set up. I really prefer a real view into the vocal booth (as opposed to video screens) - just not sure it is feasible with such a large space between walls.

Not sure if there is any problem with going this route. The other choice is to build soffits around ducting and beam and somehow get a window in there and maybe just one well built door (a second door could not fit under soffit very well).

The devil is certainly in the details.