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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
Hi all, my first post on this forum.

Quote:
14.3.2012: I edited this first post with a clearer description of what I aim for:
Where am I located: On the west coast of Norway, on a small island with 11000 habitants.
What do I want to do: Mainly a control room for mixing and song writing, but also a recording facility where I can record both single musicians and bands. In addition to the recording room, I plan to use the car room on ground floor for this.
What and where is the facility: It is the loft on my newly built car garage. As the simple drawing below shows, I plan to divide the loft space in two.
How loud am I: I believe not more than 80dB during mixing. Probably around 100dB while recording band. Rough guesses though...


I have had a small home recording studio for many years, but never a proper location.
Now I´m finally getting to a point where I have the possibility to build something i always have wanted to do.
On the loft of my garage, the new studio will become a reality, hopefully before the summer...
The following picture shows the space. No walls yet, I´m still in planning mode. The only thing in place is the stairs.
Attachment:
kjiprecords.png


I´ll hope to keep you updated on the progress, and I will most likely have some questions along the way...

The main use for the studio will be on a moderate demo level. Friends, familiy and local musicians who want to showcase their creativity.

Now I need to read some more on studio construction, design, acoustics, etc... :D

And of course, any comments looking at the above drawing is welcome... :D


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Last edited by LEV on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
The following is some real life pictures of the available space.
The biggest room will also work as a general fun and play room for the youth of the house, so it is a multi purpose building I would say.

Attachment:
P1010404.JPG

Attachment:
P1010403.JPG

Attachment:
P1010402.JPG


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:13 pm
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
Before posting on this forum I have tried to find information related to the design and layout of typical loft studios.
I have found very litle relevant information. Or it could also be that I don't quite know what to look or search for...
But it seems that rectangular rooms are more documented.

Anyhow, I have been thinking to modify the control room with inner walls something like the below picture (orange lines).
Attachment:
kjiprecords cr.png


Acoustically, will I gain from a setup like this (to prevent the parallell walls)?
Also, should I go for a flat roof at 2,4m up, or should I have the beams visible and have the roof go all the way to the top?

The control room will be the most important room with the aim to be a good mixing room.

I am thinking to use plasterboard as wall material, any reason not to use such material? Or maybe, what would be the recommended material on the walls and the ceiling?
The floor will be regular wood based. I will not bother with floating floor, since there is no big need to isolate the loft from the ground floor of the garage. Also the distance to neighbors are ok. I'm guessing 10m to the closest neighbor.

Any comments and proposals are very welcome :D


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Location: Mt. Clare, West Virginia, USA
I started to build my studio above the garage. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8426

But after finding out how difficult it is to isolate sound with a floating wood deck, I moved to the basement. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10347

My final project is here. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14136&start=105

It seemed to me it would have been very tough to get good isolation with the walls, ceiling, and floor of a second floor loft. It can probably be done, but might require a lot of money and inventiveness to do. The walls and ceiling may be difficult to make a true sealed 2 leaf structure without getting to be too heavy. And the floor could resonate like a drum.

Most of the loft studios I have watched on this forum over the years never get reported as finished on this forum. I don't know if folks don't publish their results or just bail out all together.

I hope you are successful, and I look forward to seeing your solution. Maybe you will figure out an affordable way to do this. Best of luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
I don't have a basement so my garage loft is my only option...

What are the difficulties I will meet with a loft studio:
    Isolating to prevent sound leakage (neighbors)? Not the biggest problem...
    Avoiding resonance from the floor? Could be a problem...

This is probably basic for those into acoustics, but if you should list the main challenges with a loft like this, how would that list look? And what are the possible solutions...?

To build a true sealed 2 leaf structure on the loft, what would I benefit from that? Would I avoid resonance problems from the floor? Would it limit the sound leakage?

The floor structure on the loft is like this:

---
25mm chipboard
---

200mm wooden beam (part of the roof truss construction you see in the above pictures)

---
12mm gypsum board (plasterboard, I don't know what is the correct english word to use)
---

I was planning to put 14mm wooden floor above the chipboard.

It's true what you mention with the other loft studios, I have also struggled to find good success stories to look at.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:52 am 
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Location: Mt. Clare, West Virginia, USA
LEV wrote:
What are the difficulties I will meet with a loft studio:
    Isolating to prevent sound leakage (neighbors)? Not the biggest problem...
    Avoiding resonance from the floor? Could be a problem...

This is probably basic for those into acoustics, but if you should list the main challenges with a loft like this, how would that list look? And what are the possible solutions...?

To build a true sealed 2 leaf structure on the loft, what would I benefit from that? Would I avoid resonance problems from the floor? Would it limit the sound leakage?



If you want to limit the loud drummer and band noise from going to the closest neighbors, that's where you need isolation. To get isolation, most folks need a 2 leaf system with a sealed Mass/Air/Mass system. That first Mass is the inside room (walls, ceiling, floor, door, windows). Then an air gap. This air gap can be between an inch and a couple feet, depending on how you build it. The outer Mass is the outside structure (walls, ceiling, floor, door, windows.) If you start reading on this forum or read books like the Rod Gervais book mentioned all over this forum, you will learn this.

The MAM system is hard to do on an elevated wood deck. Your outer walls may have air ventiliation to allow air flow from your soffet to a ridge vent on the roof (Mine did). This keeps the outer leaf from being sealed and sound can easily escape. In effect, there isn't have much of a leaf at all. Building 2 more leaves than the existing one might put quite a load on the structure.

Also, many folks will build their studios on a concrete floor that is touching the earth. In those cases, the earth is dampening the concrete, so there isn't a need for a MAM structure for the floor. With an elevated wood deck, to get good isloation, a MAM structure is probably needed. This might involve building another lower ceiling in the garage below. That can be expensive and may put a large load on the structure.

You should spend a lot of time reading this forum and books on the subject. Then you will start to understand how to isloate sound and the difficulties that an elevated wood deck create. I'm pretty sure it can be done well. But the cost and work may be great. I think I had a workable plan for mine, but I was not going to pay that price and sacrifice the space and work.

If you don't care how much noise gets out to the neighbors, you can use standard construction and all of these issues go away.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:13 pm
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
Thanks britune,

I have started reading me up on these subjects, but it is really a jungle, especially when you start browsing threads.
Maybe getting the Rod Gervais book is a good start.

Sound leakage to neighbors is actually not my biggest concern. My son plays drums, and the drums are currently located in a room quite similar to the recording room of my garage, and when I'm outside my house I can hear that he plays drums, but it is not very loud and annoying. With that in mind I was thinking that I could try to do some more simple actions to improve sound leakage without spending to much much cost and work.

I'll do some more reading and ask when I have questions :shot:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
Here is a video (with norwegian text :D ) showing one way of sound isolating the floor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... rhC6F-BRTY

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
Home Recording Studio by Rod Gervais is now ordered.

Just to elaborate a little bit more on what I've been thinking so far.

For the control room I am thinking of a room within the room construction. At least partly. I'll get back to that. This will also be the room that needs the most acoustic attention.

For the recording room, I am not sure if my planned actions will be worthwhile.
Will I gain any soundproofing by mainly treating the floor? I will also treat the walls and the roof, but I was not intending to do this as extensively as I plan for the CR. Mainly by using insulation and gypsum boards.
What I've had in mind so far is a solution as shown in the above youtube video giving me the following layers above the existing floor:
    Wooden floor (14mm)
    Gypsum floor board (12mm)
    Acoustic step and sound dampening plate (22mm, I don't know the english word :D )
    Existing floor (as shown in above pictures)
This solution will of course not provide a sound tight room since there will be probably leakage through the jamb walls at both sides of the room (to be used for storage) and also the big windows.
So actually my question would then be, should I bother at all with soundproofing activities on this floor if I have openings in to the jamb walls and the windows as they are?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:47 am 
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Location: Mt. Clare, West Virginia, USA
LEV wrote:
For the recording room, I am not sure if my planned actions will be worthwhile.
Will I gain any soundproofing by mainly treating the floor? I will also treat the walls and the roof, but I was not intending to do this as extensively as I plan for the CR. Mainly by using insulation and gypsum boards.
What I've had in mind so far is a solution as shown in the above youtube video giving me the following layers above the existing floor:
    Wooden floor (14mm)
    Gypsum floor board (12mm)
    Acoustic step and sound dampening plate (22mm, I don't know the english word :D )
    Existing floor (as shown in above pictures)
This solution will of course not provide a sound tight room since there will be probably leakage through the jamb walls at both sides of the room (to be used for storage) and also the big windows.
So actually my question would then be, should I bother at all with soundproofing activities on this floor if I have openings in to the jamb walls and the windows as they are?


What youtube video are you talking about?

In general, the entire room enclosure (walls, ceiling, floor, windows, doors, HVAC vents, electrical outlets) must be included to get good isolation. You must have the nearly the same level of isloation from all components to get good isolation. Your room isolation will only be as good as your weakest component.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:40 am 
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
britune wrote:
LEV wrote:
For the recording room, I am not sure if my planned actions will be worthwhile.
Will I gain any soundproofing by mainly treating the floor? I will also treat the walls and the roof, but I was not intending to do this as extensively as I plan for the CR. Mainly by using insulation and gypsum boards.
What I've had in mind so far is a solution as shown in the above youtube video giving me the following layers above the existing floor:
    Wooden floor (14mm)
    Gypsum floor board (12mm)
    Acoustic step and sound dampening plate (22mm, I don't know the english word :D )
    Existing floor (as shown in above pictures)
This solution will of course not provide a sound tight room since there will be probably leakage through the jamb walls at both sides of the room (to be used for storage) and also the big windows.
So actually my question would then be, should I bother at all with soundproofing activities on this floor if I have openings in to the jamb walls and the windows as they are?


What youtube video are you talking about?

In general, the entire room enclosure (walls, ceiling, floor, windows, doors, HVAC vents, electrical outlets) must be included to get good isolation. You must have the nearly the same level of isloation from all components to get good isolation. Your room isolation will only be as good as your weakest component.

This youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... rhC6F-BRTY

But exactly as you point out, the weakest link...

Since the room will have multi purposes I need to think well through where I should put my focus and attention.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:19 am 
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Location: Mt. Clare, West Virginia, USA
Do you have soffit vents and ridge vents to the outside?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:52 pm 
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No ventilation so far. For the moment I need to keep the loft window open to get som ventilation on the loft.
So ventilation is one of the topics I have not concluded how to do yet.
Maybe I should take the drums out and test how loud it is before any work is done...?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Location: Bømlo, Norway
Did a small dB test yesterday.

Measured the drums inhouse, approx 95-100dB.
Measured the drums outside, approx 70-75dB.

These are the numbers from where the drums are today, the walls are approx 20cm thick, standard house construction, no particular focus on sound isolation. Don´t know if these numbers seems recognizable...?
:shot:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:54 pm 
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"Most of the loft studios I have watched on this forum over the years never get reported as finished on this forum. I don't know if folks don't publish their results or just bail out all together. "

:)

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