John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Ok. So dont judge me for how this studio is set up, I have only recently come on board and they have given me a budget to modify the space and acoustically treat the rooms.

So before i deal with treatment (and i wont in this thread) the isolation between live and control rooms is awful and i would like to address this issue first. My budget just for this construction will be about $5,000.

I have made a SketchUp of the studio and it is attached. Everything is very accurate, just couldn't get the doors to swing out, so i just have empty frames, but its easy to see where the doors are. The layer in bright pink is what i plan on adding, the rest is there.

This studio has a very small floated control room with vocal booth and a decent sized live room. My plan to increase isolation is to first build an additional doorway between the control and live rooms. That i think im pretty clear on.

The big question is how to best build the new slanted ceiling in the live room and what do put in the space created.

I am thinking i will build a basic wood frame and mount double layers of drywall with greenglue to the liveroom side using resilient channels and iso clips. then use a layer of 705 fiberglass above that, then air space, then more 705, then the floor of the control room.

I know (think) for isolation mass and air space are the most important factors. Should I maybe use sheet rock or something real heavy instead of a layer of drywall?


Im very new at all this, usually just a recording/mix engineer. So any input is appreciated. Thanks a lot. And please let me know if you need more information from me.

Hi Micah, and Welcome!

OK, but which is which? The rooms are not marked. I'm guessing that the downstairs room is the lie room, and upstairs is the control room?

Before deciding on solutions, it would be better to identify the problem as well as possible. It may well be that you need another door, but there are numerous potential paths for sound to get from upstairs to downstairs, (and vice versa). So I reckon that a better approach would be to first identify what the problem actually is, and what is causing it, then go after the solutions.

One thing that would help, is some photos of what you are dealing with. Maybe you could post a few shots of the live room, and of the control room, plus the places you suspect are problems. For example, if you suspect that the current door is not good enough, the post a couple of photos of the door itself, the door frame, the seals around the door, that kind of thing.

Not sure I understand: Is that already built, or is that another part of the proposed solution? Either way, what is the purpose?

Sheetrock is just another name for drywall. Also called gypsum board, plasterboard, gyproc, and probably several other things, too! It's confusing to have one thing called by so many names. I think you are probably talking about fiber cement board, which is much denser than drywall (about double). But once again, those are decisions that don't need to be taken yet, as they are part of the solution, while what is really needed first is a clear definition of the problem.

So maybe you could explain in more detail what the problem is, in terms of isolation. How much isolation are you getting right now? It would be really good to check that with a sound level meter, and put some objective numbers to it. Sound level meters are cheap enough.

Also, what TYPE of sound is giving you problems? Is it just low frequencies (kick drum and bass guitar), or lows and mids (add snare, toms, keyboards, vocals), or across the entire spectrum (add cymbals, electric guitars, and everything else)?

In general isolation requires an "envelope" approach, where you have to deal with all six sides of the rooms (or at least, all six sides of one of the rooms). Just dealing with one side doesn't help much, since sound is like water: it takes the easiest path. So if you put a barrier in one path, it will simply flow around that and take the next easiest path. To stop it, you have to surround it with a complete envelope: barriers on all sides, so that it cannot go anywhere. You might already have some that are working and some that are not, and you might even have all of them working but with "breaches", called "flanking paths", such as bad seals on doors or windows, no silencers in the HVAC ducts, or direct mechanical coupling between surfaces in the live room and surfaces in the control room.

Lots of things could be right or wrong, so your first order of business should be to figure out which ones are good, and which ones need help.

So please describe how that studio is built: What is the Live Room ("LR") floor made of, what are the walls made of, how were they built, what is the control room ("CR") floor made of, and how is that built, how are the doors built, how is the window built (type of glass, thickness, seals), how is the ceiling built, etc. All of that is very important for helping you figure this out, so please provide as much info as you can.

Also, get a sound level meter and test how much isolation you actually have right now.


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

Thanks so much for the quick response. Ill be at the studio tomorrow so I can speak with the owner about the existing construction and take some pictures.

I will try and get some gear in to measure, but the isolation is very poor across all frequencies. Lows and mids more of a problem. Very hard to eq while tracking drums currently.

Also, yes the control room is the small upstairs room and the live room is the larger room that is two floors tall.

Doors. I didnt specifically mention them but your right. I will post details of the existing door tomorrow but I do hope to improve the seal. Any insight into the best method is appreciated. I was planning on using magnetic weather stripping for the existing door, and then constructing the new door to include a drop seal as well. I own the Rod Gervais book and rely on it heavily.

HVAC. I have a lot of trouble understanding and finding products for this. I do think the HVAC ducts are a weakpoint for isolation. There is probably only 5 or so feet between a vent in the live room and the vent in the control room. Additionally the vent in the vocal booth is very loud (due to airflow). I want to look into turning down the speed of the system (not sure if our unit even has that flexibility) and also replacing the vents. I feel most lost here. The pictures tomorrow will help you see my specific case, but any advice on specific ducts that are designed for acoustics would be great.

The pink ceiling is not built. Neither is the pink door leading towards the control room. Those are my ideas to increase isolation. The door is designed so that there can be 2 doors separating the live and control room and the result will be a better air seal. The new ceiling doesnt make as much sense haha, but I feel the floor vibrations when drummers play in the live room and so it seemed like a place to start. Mainly because the space is there to build more walls and an air space without significantly impacting the useful space of the live room. also gets rid of 1 parallel wall.

That should help clarify what im thinking (I hope), and ill update this thread tomorrow with some details about the existing construction and photos to match. You can also see some pictures here : http://boomroomstudios.com/photos.html

Micah


oh and i also want to note that unless im really far off in my estimations I wont need the full $5,000 for isolation improvements so im going to drop the number to $2,000. unless im wrong. Then tell me if im wrong haha.

Omw to the studio in a few so ill put up the pics and more info later, but for now ive updated the sketch to include the HVAC ducts, not measured, but it shows where they are located.

So please describe how that studio is built:

-What is the Live Room ("LR") floor made of
The floor is bamboo wood floors over concreate. THe bamboo is glued to the concreate using "acoustic glue" from the flooring company.

- what are the walls made of, how were they built,
Walls are standard wood frame construction with a layer of drywall screwed into the studs. They have been filled with "Closed cell spray foam insulation" made by DOW.

-what is the control room ("CR") floor made of, and how is that built,
oak hardwood flooring over plywood. This is attached to a standard wood frame. a single layer of drywal is screwed into the wood frame to create the ceiling in the live room.. there is no insulation in this flooring.

-how are the doors built,
commercial steel door and frame. Weatherstripping on one edge and bottom. all edges also have a metal door seal on the inside edge.

-how is the window built (type of glass, thickness, seals),
The window is a 1/8# thick sheet of plexi glass flush against a 3 pane glass sheet. Set into a wood frame and molding with standard caulk.

-how is the ceiling built
2 layers of drywalls screwed into a woof frame. a layer of the spray insulation, plywood, and wood floors for the office above.


I dont have a lot of details I would like because the construction was contracted but please ask any questions and i will try and find out more specifics if you need. I hope this helps. Sound level testing coming asap.

Im attaching a bunch of photos as well. can get more anytime.