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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:58 am 
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Location: Norway
As soon as the flooring is done im going to start insulation walls. I was thinking I will finish of the insulation with plastic. This is to avoid the dust coming from the insulation and on to the equpment. And also ”plastic has the affect of retaining some of the high end (Air) in the room” (ref .John in this blog post: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1742&start=15)

Will plastic be a good idea in my case?

After the plastic I will finish of the room with cloth FR701. But in this case I need to make a frame for the cloth so that the plastic dosent make “waves” on the fabric. Does anyone have any suggestion on the best way to mount the frames on the wall/ceiling.

Any suggestions or comments?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Location: Norway
This week’s update. Floor finished, all wall and ceiling frames and joints caulked and isolated. My fabric has finally arrived, electrical will connected and installed at the end of this week and I’m currently looking to find the right kind of glass fo my window. Could I use plex class? Or must I use laminated glassing. Also, how thick must the glass / plex be?

So next step will be getting the window installed so I can start doing some testing with the REW acoustic software before moving forward with the treatment. ¨

In regard to the last question i posted on how to install the fabric I will build frames for the walls, wrap the fabric around the frames and mount it on the wall.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:44 am 
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Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
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I was thinking I will finish of the insulation with plastic. This is to avoid the dust coming from the insulation and on to the equpment

With caulk everywhere, I doubt this is necessary, but it won't hurt to contain the fibres and dust.

Quote:
And also ”plastic has the affect of retaining some of the high end (Air) in the room”

If you're referring to your walls, yes. For your floor, this won't do anything because your insulation is fully covered up by wood already.

Quote:
Will plastic be a good idea in my case?

For your floor, I answered above. For your walls, it depends on how you want your room to sound. You have a single room studio, so realistically you should be looking into variable acoustics for at least some of your walls. For your ceiling, maybe, some.

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Does anyone have any suggestion on the best way to mount the frames on the wall/ceiling.

Brad nail them.

Greg

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:35 am 
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Location: Norway
Hi Greg! Thanks for replying

Quote:
For your floor, I answered above. For your walls, it depends on how you want your room to sound. You have a single room studio, so realistically you should be looking into variable acoustics for at least some of your walls. For your ceiling, maybe, some.


Yes, i ment the ceiling and the walls. Mostly for keeping the fibers in but also to make sure that the room doesnt sound to dead. I will use platic on the wall and ceiling then do some measurements and treat the rest of the room accordingly (slots, base traps etc.)

Quote:
Brad nail them.


Thanks, brad nail it is..


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:10 am 
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Location: Norway
This weeks update. Finishing between the two doors.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:45 am 
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What kind of glass should I go for in the control room? I have contacted the local glass shop and he listed up different alternatives. I have attached the table he sent me. So when I calculate the minimum thickness I needed the glass to be (1/3 of the thickens of my wall) ==> 25 mm (0,984 inch) /3 = 8,33 mm (0,328 inch). That gives me the minimum thickens of 8,33 mm (0,328 inch). But thicker is better, right?. So if I go for the Laminated tempered glass with thickens of 16,76 mm (0,66) that will a good choice. Or am i way of here? or should I consider the laminated glass to be two different thickness

ref: in this blogpost: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17770#p124232

can anyone give me some feedback on this?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:10 am 
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Location: Norway
Anyone?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:14 am 
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Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Quote:
What kind of glass should I go for in the control room? I have contacted the local glass shop and he listed up different alternatives. I have attached the table he sent me. So when I calculate the minimum thickness I needed the glass to be (1/3 of the thickens of my wall) ==> 25 mm (0,984 inch) /3 = 8,33 mm (0,328 inch). That gives me the minimum thickens of 8,33 mm (0,328 inch).

You used two sheets of 1/2" drywall for your walls?

If so, then your math is correct. You need at least 8.33mm LAMINATED glass for each leaf.

Quote:
But thicker is better, right?. So if I go for the Laminated tempered glass with thickens of 16,76 mm (0,66) that will a good choice. Or am i way of here? or should I consider the laminated glass to be two different thickness

I've never heard of laminated tempered glass. Where I live, it's either laminated, or tempered. You want laminated. Ask your glass shop if they can get you glass made with "acoustic PVB" instead of regular PVB. It's not a deal breaker, but the acoustic PVB will drastically improve your coincident dip.

So, looking at your chart, you should be able to go with the top most piece of glass.

Greg

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:26 am 
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Location: Norway
Gregwor wrote:
Quote:
I've never heard of laminated tempered glass. Where I live, it's either laminated, or tempered. You want laminated. Ask your glass shop if they can get you glass made with "acoustic PVB" instead of regular PVB. It's not a deal breaker, but the acoustic PVB will drastically improve your coincident dip.

So, looking at your chart, you should be able to go with the top most piece of glass.
Greg


Thanks Greg for posting! I have emailed the glass shop asking if they can get acoustic PVB laminated glass.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:47 am 
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Location: Norway
New update.

New Windows mounted on the outer leaf framing.

Window casing built based on Stuarts suggestion in this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21396. Built as a unit with spasing between them finised up with cloth covering the gap between them.

The glass for the inner leaf monted in the frame, sealed arround the edges and finised of with window lists.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:53 am 
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Location: Norway
I have just done the first measurement of my room with the REW measurement tool. The measurement was done based on Stuarts description here:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21122

FYI: The room is finished without treatment. This is the first measurement before starting with the actual treatment of the room (superchunks, slots …)

My gear setup:
Mic: PreSonus PRM-1
Sound level meter: Extech-407732

Calibration:
Calibration REW to sound card done as explained in the REW help section. See also attached pictures of my calibration process

Let me know if I have done anything wrong with the setup or have made a mistake while measuring.

Can you guys help me interpret the REW graphs?

P.S. Stuart, I would really like to hear your opinion. What would you recommend as far as treatment goes for my particular room? My room is mall but hopefully some magic can be done with your help :)


Find attached mdat file below.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aLSahUNZ9rhusix6d2TLjMWIHeCV7K8R


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:55 am 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
I have just done the first measurement of my room with the REW measurement tool. The measurement was done based on Stuarts description here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21122
Great! :thu:

Quote:
My gear setup:
Mic: PreSonus PRM-1
Sound level meter: Extech-407732
Good choice.

Quote:
Calibration REW to sound card done as explained in the REW help section. See also attached pictures of my calibration process
:thu: You did it exactly right. For being a first measurement, the data is excellent! Good job calibrating.

Quote:
Can you guys help me interpret the REW graphs?

P.S. Stuart, I would really like to hear your opinion. What would you recommend as far as treatment goes for my particular room? My room is mall but hopefully some magic can be done with you help
The room is built "inside out", correct? That's what it looks like from the REW data. So the studs and joists are facing the room, and you have insulation in all the stud bays... Correct?

It's actually looking fairly decent, and with reasonable prospects!

Attachment:
StudioNorway--FR--20-1k--baseline-anotated.png


You have modal issues at 39.7 Hz, 81.5 Hz, and 137 Hz. You also have a major SBIR (or perhaps combined floor-bounce) dip at around 96 Hz, and maybe again up around 280 Hz, but apart from those it is fairly smooth.

Attachment:
StudioNorway--RT--40-12k--baseline.png

The room is too dry overall, with only about 150 ms decay time: I would shoot for about 250 in that room. It's very dead between about 150 Hz and 2 kHz, but even above that it is too dead. But that's to be expected, if you built it inside out. So you are going to need some large reflective surfaces around much of the room, plus some targeted bass trapping for your modal issues, and some other stuff to deal with a few early reflections.

Please post some photos of the room as it is right now, when you did the REW tests, and also post the final interior dimensions of the room (measured to the acoustic boundaries). A few pages back, you said that the final dimensions were going to be " L:4,20m x W:2,26 x H:2,64.", but I'm not sure if that's how it actually ended up? That sort-of matches the actual REW results, since with those dimensions you should have modes at 41 Hz (your 1,0,0 axial) and 82 Hz (your 2,0,0 axial), and I can see some vague evidence of your 0,0,1 axial at 66 Hz and your 0,1,0 axial at 76 Hz,
but I can't see where you would get anything at 137 Hz.... your 1.0.2 tangential at 136.8, so that could be it, but it seems a bit large for a tangential that high up. So please confirm the dimensions.

Over all, it's looking good, considering the size. That's a VERY small room, so it will need quite a bit of treatment, and it will be very hard to deal with your 96 Hz null effectively.

That's just a very quick, basic analysis, as unfortunately I don't have time to go in-depth on that, as I'm working on several other things right now, for clients. But that should get you on the right track.

Quote:
My room is mall but hopefully some magic can be done with you help
I'm a studio designer, not a magician! :) :shot:

There's some stuff you can do to improve that, certainly, but with it being so tiny, it's not going to be easy at all...


- Stuart -


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:32 am 
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Location: Norway
Quote:
You did it exactly right. For being a first measurement, the data is excellent! Good job calibrating.

Thanks allot Stuart! I really appreciate you taking the time to comment!
Quote:
The room is built "inside out", correct? That's what it looks like from the REW data. So the studs and joists are facing the room, and you have insulation in all the stud bays... Correct?
It's actually looking fairly decent, and with reasonable prospec

Yes!, the room is built "inside out", studs and joists are facing the room and all the stud bays are insulated.
Quote:
You have modal issues at 39.7 Hz, 81.5 Hz, and 137 Hz. You also have a major SBIR (or perhaps combined floor-bounce) dip at around 96 Hz, and maybe again up around 280 Hz, but apart from those it is fairly smooth
The room is too dry overall, with only about 150 ms decay time: I would shoot for about 250 in that room. It's very dead between about 150 Hz and 2 kHz, but even above that it is too dead. But that's to be expected, if you built it inside out. So you are going to need some large reflective surfaces around much of the room, plus some targeted bass trapping for your modal issues, and some other stuff to deal with a few early reflections.

Ok, so there is allot to keep in mind here when planning the next face in regards of what kind of treatments and where place them. Initially I was thinking of going with two floor-to-ceiling super chunks at the back of the room. One in the corner by the window and one on wheels by the door. At the front I was thinking I would go for partially slot walls on the sides with hangers in the two hangers in the front corner. Will the slot walls also work as a reflective surface. Any thoughts?
Attachment:
Slots1.jpg

Attachment:
studio overview1.jpg

Attachment:
studio overview2.jpg

Attachment:
studio overview3.jpg

Attachment:
studio overview4.jpg

Should I also consider hard-back cloud above the listening position, to help breaking up the modes / flutter between floor and the ceiling? What size should I go for here?
Quote:
Please post some photos of the room as it is right now, when you did the REW tests, and also post the final interior dimensions of the room (measured to the acoustic boundaries). A few pages back, you said that the final dimensions were going to be " L:4,20m x W:2,26 x H:2,64.", but I'm not sure if that's how it actually ended up? That sort-of matches the actual REW results, since with those dimensions you should have modes at 41 Hz (your 1,0,0 axial) and 82 Hz (your 2,0,0 axial), and I can see some vague evidence of your 0,0,1 axial at 66 Hz and your 0,1,0 axial at 76 Hz,
but I can't see where you would get anything at 137 Hz.... your 1.0.2 tangential at 136.8, so that could be it, but it seems a bit large for a tangential that high up. So please confirm the dimensions.

You correct Stuart as always. The room size stated in the earlier post is wrong. Im sorry about that. The actual room size is:
Metric:
- length: 3.79m, width: 1.92m, height: 2.35m
Feet:
- length: 12.4 ft, width: 6.3ft, height: 7.71ft
As shown in the Room Mode Calculator it does not pass.
https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=3.79&w=1.92&h=2.35&r60=0.6
Attachment:
studionorway_overview (1).JPG

Attachment:
studionorway_overview (2).JPG

Attachment:
studionorway_overview (3).JPG

Attachment:
studionorway_overview (4).JPG

Attachment:
studionorway_overview (5).JPG

Attachment:
studionorway_overview (6).JPG

Attachment:
studionorway_overview (7).JPG


Quote:
There's some stuff you can do to improve that, certainly, but with it being so tiny, it's not going to be easy at all...

…Easy… Where's the Fun in That? :yahoo:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Location: Norway
If anyone here who is reading this last posts has experience with small studio space and has had similar issues with their space in regards to treatment feel free to chip in with ideas or experienced result (pros/cons). :idea:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:55 am 
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Location: Norway
Anyone?..

Is there anyone that can comment on my plans in regards to reatment of the room.
As shown in my latest scetchup for my treatment planes:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18593&start=45#p148435?

- Em I on the right track in regards to Stuarts comment on the first rew test?

- Do I need more reflection surfaces compared to the scetchup drawing .

- With the slots will I get higher decay time? If not what else to do? Can I calculate this somehow?

- Will the targeted bass trapping in the two back corners and the hangers in the front of the room work in regards to my modal issues?

- Shold I also build a hard-back cloud above the listening position to help breaking up the modes / flutter between floor and the ceiling? What size should I go for here?

Let me know. I will highly appreciate some help in this area. :thu:


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