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CR Treatment and Tuning---The home stretch!!
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Author:  Stadank0 [ Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  CR Treatment and Tuning---The home stretch!!

Hi all,

My name is Frank and I am a client of Stuart's. I'm currently in the treatment stage of the CR in what has turned out be an amazing project IMHO...The studio also consists of an LR that's in the neighborhood of 375 sq ft and a hall way/half bath.

I've been at it for about 3 years and it has been quite a journey indeed! Looking forward to getting through this last bit.....This particular room is about 144 sq ft due to size constraints and my desire for a larger LR.

Stuart is well acquainted with the project , so not much need for extraneous details. I'm excited, and feeling confident that I will end up with a very satisfying result!


Here is what the finished product will basically look like:
Attachment:
CR finish1.jpg


Here is the state of things now:
Attachment:
20180102_192845.jpg

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20180102_192826.jpg

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20180102_192813.jpg

Attachment:
Plan view Studio.jpg





So, I'm starting the process and Stuart will be chiming in along the way....

Author:  Soundman2020 [ Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

I should add that Frank has built this place from the ground up, and done the majority of the work himself, which is pretty amazing. To get some perspective on what he's accomplished so far, here's a view of the partly completed studio, at various stages of construction, starting with the rough outer-leaf framing and up to the currently finished Live Room:

Attachment:
Frank--20150311_111935-Framing-03.jpg


Attachment:
Frank--20150319_163944-Roof-trusses-in.jpg


Attachment:
Frank-20150320_190203-Sheathing-on.jpg


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Frank-20150612_092931-EXTERIOR-01-SML.png


Attachment:
Frank--LR-to-CR--walls-done--ceiling-not.jpg


Attachment:
Frank--20170802_083916.jpg


Frank is getting better than 50 dB of isolation to the outside world at present, which is very respectable. He could have gotten a bit more than that if he would have used non-operable windows, but he really wanted the option of being able to open the windows, and didn't mind sacrificing a few dB to get that. The original design was for 55 dB, so achieving more than 50 dB with opening windows is pretty darn good!

Congratulations, Frank, on what you have done so far! :thu:

Now Frank is at the stage of completing the CR, and treating it, and tuning it. We just did the first acoustic "baseline" test of the CR with the speakers in place but no treatment at all, and it's already looking quite nice. Frank suggested that we start posting images and descriptions on the forum for others to learn from, and I love the idea! It's not often that a client wants to do that, since it's his money, his investment, and his design (since he paid for it!), so I'm grateful for Franks generosity in wanting to share this with the forum.

Hopefully it will be interesting and useful for forum members to watch the Control Room treatment and tuning process as we work through it. It will take quite a few weeks still, of course, since Frank only has one pair of hands, and needs to eat and sleep every now and then... :) Plus he still has to work, so he can make more money to buy the stuff to finish the place! So if you are interested in seeing how this works out, check in to this thread regularly.

We'll try to show as much of the process as we can, warts and all, so forum members can get a good handle on how to do it themselves for their own rooms. However, there's a couple of things that we won't be going into full detail about: one is my proprietary "fully floated" mounting system for the speakers (which is something that I'm not prepared to share with the world, and is carefully tuned for each room and each speaker individually anyway), and the other is the final digital tuning process (probably a couple of months away still).

I'll explain why we wont be going into detail of how that digital tuning works, when we get there, but basically its because: "Kids, don't try this at home! You might hurt yourself!" :) It's a complicated precision process that requires certain acoustic prerequisites that are just too complex to explain in enough detail that anybody can do it, and doing it wrong without understanding what is going on will lead to worse performance, not better (even though you might think you made it better if you look at the wrong things...) So Frank and I agreed that it's not a good idea to try to show how that is done, as people would just try to copy it without any true understanding of what they are doing, and end up with a room that sounds ugly, even though some of the squiggles on the graph say it should sound good. We'll show the "before" and "after" graphs, so you can get an idea of what it does, but not the in-between details.

This process is sometimes incorrectly called "room correction", and it's one of my pet peeves. There is no such thing as "room correction" in reality, despite the marketing hype! I call it "digital tuning", which I think is a more accurate description. More details when we get to that point. But that's one of the reasons why I wont share that part: You MUST get the acoustic treatment maxed out to the limit first, BEFORE you can successfully use digital tuning. Trying to do this without having the acoustic treatment perfect is a recipe for disaster. For an example of how it can turn out in a large room taken to the absolute limit, take a look here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20471


I did also want to mention that this is an usual control room design, called a "corner control room", since it is set on the diagonal across the room, rather than facing one of the walls. We decided to go with this design right form the start of Frank's project, because as he mentioned, he wanted the largest possible live room that we could fit on the size slab he was permitted to build in his area, and the corner control room allowed for that. So this is an interesting and challenging room to treat: there will be some strange and unconventional stuff going on here....

Anyway, stay tuned: :snack: We'll be updating this thread each time there's an interesting advance. Bookmark it, and make sure you check the "Notify me when a reply is posted" box if you add a comment or question, so that you'll automatically get notified of updates.


- Stuart -

Author:  Stadank0 [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

From the man himself! Thanks for the kind words Stuart.....I should repay the compliment by saying that Stuart has proven to be very bright and generous with his knowledge as many of you out there can attest..

Having him in your corner is a big asset... :mrgreen:

It will be 1-2 weeks to get the ceiling, back walls, and bass trap done. That will be my first stretch. Will post pics along the way of course.. 8)

and just for fun, as few more pics of the finished LR. I'm very proud of the way that turned out!
Attachment:
20180103_074533.jpg
Attachment:
20170802_083940.jpg

I built a workstation in the LR because I find it more comfortable and inspiring to compose in a bigger room. I'm loving the space!
Attachment:
20171123_135413.jpg

Author:  Studio45 [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Wow! That's amazing work Frank! Looks great and I'm sure it'll sound great as well! Keep us posted!

I can't wait to get started on the execution of my studio. It's been an intense learning experience so far and I would not be where I'm at without the help of Stuart either so I also appreciate the help he's provided me.

Author:  Stadank0 [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Thanks... Will do!!

Author:  Stadank0 [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Hi Stuart

Done as much as I can with the ceiling. Going to need the bass trap detail so I can move forward on the ceiling and back walls. I can start on the soffits if your confident that the details are sufficient.

Feel free to give me simple instructions for the bass trap changes if any. I don't need detailed documentation if it saves you time.

Thanks
Frank

PS...I'm fine changing the soffit dimensions on my own to accommodate the speaker change. Chime in if you have any issues with that.

Author:  Stadank0 [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Hi Stuart,


After reviewing the dims for the new speakers, I discovered that I'm going to need to lower the speaker platforms about 3.5", otherwise the tweeters will be too high. Won't be too much trouble for me, but wanted to make note in case you had an objection.

I adjusted the dims for the soffit boxes from the pdf not the model. Ready to go as long as you let me....

Author:  Gregwor [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Frank,

For any future pics, could you make them higher resolution/larger? I'd love to see the three pictures you've posted already, in more detail, but they're too small to see anything really :-(

What speakers did you end up going with in your soffit? You have three different sets in the speakers Stuart posted.

Would you ever upload an .skp file for us to check out your layout?

Great work and I look forward to seeing your progress.

Greg

Author:  Stadank0 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Hi Greg,

I fixed the first 3 you mentioned.

I went with the Focal Trio monitors. I have the Focal Twins in at the workstation in the LR. The bottom picture is the way the workstation is now. I've become a big Focal fan. I just love them. I still have a set of BM15 passives with a Bryston 3B amp that I'll use for secondaries in the CR.

I can't upload an .skp here due to file size restrictions, but I put a screenshot in the first post...

Thanks

Author:  Soundman2020 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Frank, I'd hold off a little on redoing the soffits: I know it looks easy in the SKP, but there's a lot more to it than meets the eye! I'd also like to do some other changes to the design that weren't in the original, for the Focals.

I'm nearly done with the update for the rear corner treatment: That has also changed a bit, based on the initial REW measurements. Hang in there a bit! I know you are raring to go, and start building stuff, but control room tuning can't be done in a day! :) It's better to take it slow, and make sure you aren't making things worse, instead of better, or getting the tuning wrong, or designing things that can't actually be built... :)

The weekend is almost over, and I promise I'll give your rear wall treatment top priority when I get into the office tomorrow. And as soon as that's done, I'll get into the soffit modifications.

- Stuart -

Author:  Stadank0 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Thanks Stuart,

Awesome! I respect the weekends...... 8)

I stopped working on ceiling panel fabrication for the reasons you mentioned. I'll wait to resume working.

Author:  Stadank0 [ Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

back on track.... :arrow:

Author:  Soundman2020 [ Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cr Treatment---The home stretch!!

Stadank0 wrote:
back on track.... :arrow:
Yup!

Update for the folks following this thread: Frank is now valiantly building some rather complex stuff I designed for him, for the rear corner of the room. We did a REW test of the empty room, I analyzed it and figure out some of the bigger issues that need treating, then designed "stuff" to deal with that. So here is what Frank is working on right now:

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Basically there's a small superchunk right at the back, floor to ceiling, as an anchor for the other things, with a tuned slotted poly-cylindrical device at the top and bottom, an un-tuned one in the middle, hangers in between, and un-tuned slats across the front. I won't go into all the details, but this bunch of devices is a total of about 39" deep (far tip of corner to front face), and does a bunch of things in different places across pretty much the entire spectrum, but mostly in the bass. It will hopefully do some nice things to the modal response, SBIR, and overall low end, while at the same time NOT killing the high end too much. It's designed to be balanced: it targets some specific things while actively NOT targeting other things.

He has already built the center slotted-poly unit:

Attachment:
Frank---Construction--Middle-slotted-poly-01.jpg


Attachment:
Frank---Construction--Middle-slotted-poly-02.jpg


And now he's working on the top and bottom units.

More updates to follow... Stay tuned!


- Stuart -

Author:  Soundman2020 [ Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CR Treatment and Tuning---The home stretch!!

... I also just made the thread a "sticky", so it's easier to find, and edited the title a little, to make it more descriptive. Hope you don't mind, Frank!

- Stuart -

Author:  Stadank0 [ Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CR Treatment and Tuning---The home stretch!!

The title seems appropriate... :thu:

Thanks for posting that Stuart... 8) you saved me the trouble and right about now I'm covered in damp sawdust from dealing with light rain throughout the day. No fun!! :ahh:

I will certainly be proud if I pull this one off.....running into some trouble getting accuracy on angled rip cuts but working through it...

Hope to have this done in about 5 days days, maybe sooner. The resonators will be the deciding factor for sure!

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