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 Post subject: DIY drum room project
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:45 am
Posts: 3
Location: Maribor, Slovenia, EU
I live in Slovenia, EU. I am musician, guitarist, producer, but my main interest for building soundproof room is because of my 8 year old son, who is studying drums in music school.

He could use mesh heads, but that is not long term solution.

We live in our own house. So here is the important note to make - it is not problem the loudness INDISE house, I just want to be sure to make some isolation for the loudness not coming OUTSIDE the house, because of the neighborhood. So that must be said right at the beginning…

The room, which is suitable the most for our music studio, is located in the ground floor. That floor is semi-basement, because it is built 50 cm under the external surface. The room itself have one window and two doors. The doors are not yet installed, so there are open options... Above that gound floor is another level. The ground floor - It look like this:

Attachment:
studio tloris.jpg


And the photo of the room itself right now:

Attachment:
studio photo.jpg


There is electric box on the wall, below it there is box for floor heathing system. The room itself also have floor heathing system installed already, the surface of the floor is made of ceramic tiles.

Measurments:

Attachment:
measurments.jpg


So what can i do with my drum/studio room? I have 2 options in mind.

1. To leave room as a whole, make isolation, but i see window as a problem.

2. Make new wall and make smaller but probably a lot easier to isolate room:

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2018-03-21 at 13.47.51.png


The first option has more space, second will be mor effective to isolate, I presume?

I must say one more time, there is no problem for sound to leak inside house, I just want to make isolation for the exterior outside (neighbourhood) - so I don't know, is there "room within room" the only option? Floor have heathing system, so that is maybe a problem, cause I can't drill down...

I have the tools, I presume I will need to do room within room with drywall?

Thank you in advance...

Marko


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:54 am 
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Location: Maribor, Slovenia, EU
EDIT: I did read carefully thtough forum rules - twice, have I missed something, because of no reply? Anyone?

In the meantime I have one strange idea - what about insulating from the outside? I mean - on the outside walls, where the facade will be?

EDIT: Really? ... No response in two days - never experienced that in any forum before... It took me quite a while to put those plans together... No reply?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11990
Location: Santiago, Chile
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EDIT: I did read carefully thtough forum rules - twice, have I missed something, because of no reply? Anyone?
In five HOURS? You really expected someone who is a VOLUNTEER here to come rushing to reply to your post in just a few HOURS? Seriously???? Some forum members wait many days, weeks even, to get a response, and are grateful when they do. This forum is run entirely by volunteers: people who freely give of their own time and experience, to help others. You did not pay a single cent to register here, so you are not entitled to demand that the forum volunteers must bow and grovel at your feet, just because you think you deserve special treatment.

Quote:
EDIT: Really? ... No response in two days - never experienced that in any forum before... It took me quite a while to put those plans together... No reply?
Yes, really. Well gee, I'm so sorry that the very few of us who actually respond to questions here, were not able to immediately drop our entire lives and come dashing instantly at high speed to serve your every beck and call. Clearly, you deserve top priority because you are ... umm.. welll... ohh... errr... gee... I dunno... Help me out here, since I actually can't figure that out.... Maybe you can provide a reason why your thread should receive faster attention and higher priority than the threads of members who have been here for months or years, working on their designs and builds.... I'm sure they would all be interested in your reasons for demanding to jump the line...

If you think you are entitled to faster service than anyone else, I'd love to hear your explanation. If you don't want to wait in line for the FREE, GRATIS, ZERO-COST high-end professional advice you will get here on the forum, then you should probably pay a studio designer to design your place for you.

Quote:
So here is the important note to make - it is not problem the loudness INDISE house, I just want to be sure to make some isolation for the loudness not coming OUTSIDE the house, because of the neighborhood. So that must be said right at the beginning…
Isolation works the exact same in both directions. If the room is isolated in one direction, then it is also isolated in the other direction. If the room is isoalted from the outside world, then it is also isolated from the rest of the house.. unless you want to isolate the entire house.

Quote:
... is located in the ground floor. That floor is semi-basement, because it is built 50 cm under the external surface.
That's a good start. You should be able to get decent isolation. However, you did not say how much isolation you need, in decibels. You should do some tests to determine that, since your entire construction plan depends on that.

Quote:
The room itself have one window and two doors.
Unless you really need both doors, it would be better to eliminate one of them and block it up completely. Doors are weak points in a studio, so eliminating one door will reduce the possibility for having problems. For the same reason, then window should be fixed, sealed, not operable.

Quote:
There is electric box on the wall, below it there is box for floor heathing system.

Both of those are likely also weak points. They will need careful attention to minimize sound leakage.

Quote:
I have 2 options in mind.
1. To leave room as a whole, make isolation, but i see window as a problem.
2. Make new wall and make smaller but probably a lot easier to isolate room:
Correct. It is pretty much impossible to isolate that room for drums without building a complete additional wall and ceiling, to create the inner-leaf which completes the 2-leaf MSM system that you need.

Quote:
The first option has more space, second will be mor effective to isolate, I presume?
Correct.

Quote:
so I don't know, is there "room within room" the only option?
If you want high isolation, then yes, it is the only realistic option for a reasonable price.

Quote:
I have the tools, I presume I will need to do room within room with drywall?
Drywall is one option. Other options include OSB, plywood, MDF, fiber-cement board, and a few others. Drywall is usually the least expensive, and it is also easy to work with. That's why it is usually recommended. All of those assume that the inner-leaf will be done on stud framing, but there are other options beyond that as well, such as brick and concrete block, for example. The actual choice of materials and methods depends on how much isolation you need. Defining that number (in decibels) should be the first thing you do.


- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:45 am
Posts: 3
Location: Maribor, Slovenia, EU
Sorry, it was not my intention to receive faster attention then others, I just thought, I was at the same road like one other newbie guy here who didn't get any response at all because he forget to read the rules and add location in his user account...

So - sorry for being a little bit too much impatient, I mean really...

OK, I presume, the only way to make good insulation is in the inner room itself, there are no options to make it outside the house where that room is located? I see - it is a stupid attempt to find maybe a new idea...

RWAR - you say I need to do some tests. Heh, I will learn more on this topic, I hope, because right now I can not figure it out what tests that should be - instead of measurments of decibels outside room when drums are playing...:?

The window - you suggest to make new one, because mine it is not fixed:

Attachment:
window.jpg


I could - but I am not sure how bad it will gonna be in complete lack of daylight - I could also remove that window and fill the hole with concrete bricks like the entire house is build of. I could D O that if that is necessery...

The holes for doors look like this:

Attachment:
door.jpg


So the room is pass-through... I could make two very short new walls inside room and make only one door, then leave those two holes empty like it is now... Maybe? But then I must make wall construction right on my ceramic tiles, with no option to drill down because of floor heathing...

OK I will make my best to make some measurments and try to define in decibels how much insulation I need...

Really thank you for your time and answering... I will go through the Rod Gervais book Build it like the Pros also...

EDIT: In the meantime I have read a lot of threads here on this forum like this one for example viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17363 and I must say, I respect you a lot Mr. Soundman2020, I see, how much I must learn before starting my project...

A new concern for me - because I have floor heathing under the ceramic tiles installed - I will not want to bolt the frame (new wall) of RWAR on the floor? How could I make RWAR if I am right, the frame must be bolt on floor?

Because:

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2018-03-25 at 00.35.40 1.png







 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
A new concern for me - because I have floor heathing under the ceramic tiles installed - I will not want to bolt the frame (new wall) of RWAR on the floor? How could I make RWAR if I am right, the frame must be bolt on floor?
You do need to bolt the framing to the floor. You can't have structural walls that are not firmly attached to the floor. It's unsafe, and probably also illegal, depending on where you live. If you have under-floor heating, then you can use a thermal camera to find where the pipes are, mark that on the floor itself, and avoid putting bolts in those places. Here's what the image from a thermal camera looks like, for under-floor radiant heating:

Attachment:
thermal-camera-radiant-floor-IR image2.jpg


- Stuart -


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:40 am 
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Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Quote:
You do need to bolt the framing to the floor. You can't have structural walls that are not firmly attached to the floor. It's unsafe, and probably also illegal, depending on where you live. If you have under-floor heating, then you can use a thermal camera to find where the pipes are, mark that on the floor itself, and avoid putting bolts in those places.

I was also worrying about this with the basement portion of my build. I called the city framing inspector and he said that he would pass a construction adhesive anchoring as "the glue is so strong, it will literally rip the wood apart before it comes off". I'm still thinking I will rent a thermal camera though . . .

Greg

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:41 am 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
he said that he would pass a construction adhesive anchoring as "the glue is so strong, it will literally rip the wood apart before it comes off".
I'm a little surprised! That wouldn't pass where I live. On the other hand, you don't get Magnitude 9 earthquakes where you live, so it's probably OK for there. But when you experience a powerful quake in person, and see just how much things move and shove, you start to appreciate the extremes of the building code here. I reckon in a powerful quake (anything over about Magnitude 7), it probably WOULD rip the wood apart, separating the bottom fibers from the rest, and allowing your wall to go crashing and sliding around the room! But with proper anchor bolts sunk into the slab, through the wood, and with washers and nuts on top, I don't see that happening.

Case in point: many years ago I built a shed in the back yard, with a simple monolithic slab, and plenty of substantial anchor bolts for the framing. So far, that thing as been through an 8.8 quake, an 8.3 quake, a couple of 7.xx, and more than a couple of 6.xx. It's still standing: the bolts held it all together firmly. They didn't budge even a mm. Yet I did see stuff that wasn't anchored, go sliding around, and several old houses (from before the new codes came out) did have structural failures where walls shifted: they were nailed down, not bolted down, and the nails couldn't handle it. So if nails can't handle it, then I don't see glue handling it either.

Quote:
I'm still thinking I will rent a thermal camera though . . .
That's what I'd do, for sure, in your situation! Even with no earthquakes, there's still pressures and tensions and strange forces acting on your sole plates. For example, opening and closing heavy doors that are attached to the framing... :)

OK, so maybe I'm just a "belt AND suspenders" type guy when it comes to structural stuff... but I really don't want my studio collapsing on me because I skimped on a few bolts.


- Stuart -

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