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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:44 am 
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Location: Delray Beach, FL
Hello all,

This post is not about studio design, but rather I'm trying to get help re: flanking noise from my next door neighbors TV. The TV is a flat screen, that's about 6" from the wall and whose speakers rear fire.

I just finished creating a new wall where the old 'party wall' (8' x 13') by: removing old 12/2" wall and 3/4" wood furring strips. Sealed any cavities in exposed Concrete Masonry Units (CMU) wall, then added:

1) 24" OC 25 ga steel studs, not connected to the Concrete Masonry Units (CMU) wall
2) Rockwool Safe n Sound fully filling in the cavities
3) RSIC-1 Clips + 25 ga hat channels
4) 1st layer of 5/8" Gypsum Type X with a 1/8" - 1/4" perimeter, Green Glue Acoustical Sealant applied around the perimeter
5) 2 Tubes of Green Glue per 4' x 8' sheet
6) 2nd layer of 5/8" Gypsum Type X with a 1/8" - 1/4" perimeter, Green Glue Acoustical Sealant applied around the perimeter
7) Single duplex electrical outlet sealed with acoustical putty pad

And no sound is audible through the new wall, and the GG even hasn't had to cure.

Unfortunately, the wall on the right side, which is connected to one of the external walls, there is still a flanking path, and I want to figure out a way to get rid of it without or very minimally losing floor space, as it'll make room even smaller than it is now (I could live with the approx 6" lost to make the above mentioned wall). I've attached a drawing of a birds eye view of the wall for clarification (all dimensions are in inches). There doesn't seem to be any flanking coming from the ceiling.

1) Is it possible to add mass and dampening (via MLV on top of the existing drywall, with Green Glue underneath?), and will that do anything?
2) If I tear the existing wall up to the Sliding Glass Window (Green Section) and add layers of mass via MLV and then finish with 5/8" drywall, is that enough to stop the flanking path?

I searched the forum re: flanking oaths, but couldn't find a solution. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:48 am 
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Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Welcome, whatever your name is. Could you fill out your profile a bit more please?

Quote:
1) Is it possible to add mass and dampening (via MLV on top of the existing drywall, with Green Glue underneath?), and will that do anything?

This is a slippery slope because since there is always going to be structure borne vibration from his place to yours, it will be very difficult to stop it.

If you get along with your neighbor, I'd try this:

- go to his house and get him to turn up his TV playing a loud song that can easily be played on repeat.
- set the volume so that you can hear it in your place in the problematic area
- disconnect his TV from the mount and get two people to hold it up right near where it was. But make sure it's not physically touching the mount.

See if you can still hear the sound in your place. If not, then it truly is a flanking type issue and you could probably resolve it by anchoring his TV mount to his wall via something like Sorbothane mounts.

This would be the easiest and cheapest solution.

Let us know how that goes.

Greg

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:09 am 
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Location: Delray Beach, FL
Gregwor wrote:
Welcome, whatever your name is. Could you fill out your profile a bit more please?

Quote:
1) Is it possible to add mass and dampening (via MLV on top of the existing drywall, with Green Glue underneath?), and will that do anything?

This is a slippery slope because since there is always going to be structure borne vibration from his place to yours, it will be very difficult to stop it.

If you get along with your neighbor, I'd try this:

- go to his house and get him to turn up his TV playing a loud song that can easily be played on repeat.
- set the volume so that you can hear it in your place in the problematic area
- disconnect his TV from the mount and get two people to hold it up right near where it was. But make sure it's not physically touching the mount.

See if you can still hear the sound in your place. If not, then it truly is a flanking type issue and you could probably resolve it by anchoring his TV mount to his wall via something like Sorbothane mounts.

This would be the easiest and cheapest solution.

Let us know how that goes.

Greg


No luck there. It's a condo, I own, he rents (for 2 decades now...!). I tried speaking with months ago and he yelled at me and slammed his door in my face. He's in, I assume 60's and doesn't care. The rear patio area is utterly and completely dilapidated with flora and mold growth. I sent a letter to his landlord in another state and never heard back nor was anything resolved: he only cares about his rent check. The HOA does nothing either (and the management company has a 1 star review on Yelp with 11 reviews, many of them multiple paragraphs).

I do know (prior to him slamming the door in my face) that the TV isn't mounted on the wall, it's on a stand (at least it was several months ago) and it's about 6" from the wall, and it's very clear that his hearing is going, which is why prior to the new wall, I could hear it sometimes across my apartment.

I went through the process of creating the new wall as a last measure, because not only of the cost, but also how intrusive it was to do construction when you are already living in the apartment.

The new wall definitely stopped the bulk of the noise from his side, where NOTHING is audible from that wall. Luckily, the wall to the left has no flanking noises. If I can somehow stop the flanking (as much as possible) from the right wall, I think I'll be all set. As speaking to them has failed, any suggestions re: shoring up that wall?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:43 am 
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Brutal man! Well, your best bet is to just beef up the walls. Chances are they used lightweight drywall on that exterior wall as is isn't the party wall and contractors are going to cut costs and labour whenever they can. Having said that, you could remove the drywall and either put a few layers of 5/8" firecore drywall on clips and hat or else turn the framing into staggered stud to decouple it more. The biggest concern would be making the transition on that wall look pretty. You seem to have a decent grasp on what you need to do here. The most ideal thing would be to have him turn it down but clearly he's a prick. What really sucks is that the other units that surround him are probably facing the same problems you are!

Greg

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Location: Delray Beach, FL
Gregwor wrote:
Brutal man! Well, your best bet is to just beef up the walls. Chances are they used lightweight drywall on that exterior wall as is isn't the party wall and contractors are going to cut costs and labour whenever they can. Having said that, you could remove the drywall and either put a few layers of 5/8" firecore drywall on clips and hat or else turn the framing into staggered stud to decouple it more. The biggest concern would be making the transition on that wall look pretty. You seem to have a decent grasp on what you need to do here. The most ideal thing would be to have him turn it down but clearly he's a prick. What really sucks is that the other units that surround him are probably facing the same problems you are!

Greg


Forget about turning it down, if he moved the TV to another wall, I bet that would help or solve the issue! He wouldn't even let me try to explain to him that flat screen TV's fire backwards... it's no different than turning a speaker to face and fire onto a wall. I even sent a certified letter to his landlord offering $50 towards a pair of wireless headphones or any other idea he might have to solve this and even though I gave him my email, he never responded. Considering the state in which he has let the tenant ruin the patio area (and probably the rest of the apartment), I can't say I'm really surprised.

What I'm wondering is if just shove all of the 5/8" I can into the green area, will it help with the flanking noise? Becasue of the glass door and mouldings around the door, I really don't want to make the wall thicker, so if I can remove the current 'green' wall and just do something to it to make it stop or at least seriously diminish the flanking noise, I should be ok. If I can get a lot more mass in that area, will it help?

I have no idea how large the air gap is behind the drywall, but to keep the green part of the wall flush with the rest of the wall, I don't think there is enough space to add isolation clips + channels + two layers of 5/8", with or without green glue (I'll forgo insulation, as it's the least useful item).

I've attached a new elevation drawing so it might help with what I'm writing. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:27 pm 
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Isolation is achieved with mass, insulation and being air tight. Start with that area.

Greg

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