John Sayers' Design Forum

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

A World of Experience
Click Here for Information on John's Services
It is currently Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:28 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: need general help.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
hello first post here, i'm reading the forum for a long time now,

i live in mexico and gonna start Practice/studio room next monday.

priority , sound insulation, neighbors.

room gonna be like 4.60 X 3.70 X 2.50 m House brick rendered both sides.

i want to:

float floor 1/2" neoprene + 2x4 stuuds + 2" mineral wool + 2 plywwod + fineshed floor.

walls 2X4 studs + 2 mineral wool + rc channel + 2x gypsum

CEILING- options here? same as wall, suspended ceiling?


QUESTIONS:

i can buy 2" mineral wool at 8, 6 or 4 lb/ft density, wich one?

neoprene guys only sell me 400 pieces 2"X2", so i do some calculations and gonna use like 100 to 150 in the floor,

Can i use Neoprene in the walls?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:56 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:02 am
Posts: 657
Location: Big Spring, TX, USA
You obviously missed the VERY FIRST POST at the top of EVERY forum: Please read and then update your profile.

len


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:03 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
Posts: 6978
Location: West Coast, USA
That same post gives a list of points, each in bold, that make things much easier for us to help you; things like budget, whether existing or new construction, etc - if you take those bold points step by step and answer as many as you know, it may help (or even save your LIFE in some cases) ... Steve

_________________
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
i update my profile, sorry but my english is not so good i'm from Mexico, is why i do short post.

i gonna start new construction, basically for rock band practice room or tracking room.

gonna be brick walls rendered both sides. room size 4.60 X 3.70 X h=2.50 m

my very first question, i think i gonna update this with some pics and get more help.

i want to use Mineral wool i'm just lil confused with mineral wool density, i know fiberglass 703 is 3 density.

but wich density for Mineral wool?

i have acces to 3,4,6 or 8 density, but lil confused cuz, Roxul products are 4 and 6 density and auralex is 8 density and the company who sells the wool dont have the specs.

floor and walls gonna use 2x4 wood studs, so 2" mineral wool is my way i think.

Second question, neoprene, i read i need durometer 60 1/2" neoprene.

2" x 2" 16 to 24" o.c. works for me i guess.

can i use neoprene in walls studs? or i need to float the wall just atached to floor and ceiling?

thanks i hope u guys understand my english.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:13 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:10 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: Hawaii
Aloha and wecome to the forum,

Thanks for updating your profile and post. Your english is fine. (Using spell check helps) :wink:

Quote:
but wich density for Mineral wool?


"What you need to ask for is either rigid fiberglass, such as Owens Corning 703 (un-faced) or rockwool, mineral wool, somewhere between 2 to 4 pounds per cubic foot density; Johns Manville and Knauf also make similar products." I've read that 2.5 pcf is a good place to be.

Here's an excellent read that covers most of what you're about to experience: http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 39&start=0

Quote:
can i use neoprene in walls studs?


What and where exactly do you mean/intend? If you could perhaps rephrase your question with a little more detail, please?

Some of the comments most frequently given in regard to advice is to "take it slow, read and follow the stickys/reference/posts and then ask a lot of questions giving as much detailed info as possible." Its also a good idea to check out your local building codes to make sure you're not doing anything sub standard and/or might be hazardous to your health.

Many of the questions you and I have are mostly likely already addressed. It's just a matter of doing the research to find them. If we do our part, and then ask clear and specific questions, chances are wel find what we need to know. :D

Looking forward to your project and progress.

Aloha 8)


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
Here is the plan for the upgrade. Sizes are in meters,

i have no rear wall in the control room, cuz need acces to the garden from the living room.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Last edited by aespin on Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
thanks,

link to mineral wool in mexico, i find Owens 703 but is super expensive.

http://www.protarsa.com/Lana10.htm


Mineral wool, at 5 to 7 dollars each 61 x 122 cm.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:12 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
Posts: 6978
Location: West Coast, USA
That mineral wool link is the right stuff - how thick are the pieces for 5 to 7 dollars? If they're 4" thick, that's about what I pay in Portland Oregon.

Just for your info, to convert PCF to kG/cubic meter, you multiply by 16 - so the 703, at 3 PCF, is the same density as the 48 kG mineral wool.

You mentioned 2x4's for floor framing - are these being put on top of a concrete slab or just a perimeter foundation, or what? We need more detail to be sure you're OK for your floor... Steve

_________________
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
5 dollars for 3 lb density, 7 dollar for 8 lb. all prices for 2".

this is gonna be a new construction, so floor gonna be Concrete.

from www.acoustics101.com.

Image



So my plan is.

1/2" neoprene, +
2X4 studs at 24" o.c.? or 16" o.c.?, +
stringers at 48" o.c.? +
2" 3lb Mineral wool. +
3/4" plywood +
3/4" MDF +
Finish floor

Muchas Gracias. :)


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
Another question.

construction of room gonna start next monday.

do i use house brick or 8" Concrete Block. for walls A, B and C.

if i use block i need to fill holes with Cement:Lime:Sand?

Thanks Again


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:04 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
Posts: 6978
Location: West Coast, USA
That floor method will work fairly good, but if you can afford it and need a LOT of isolation from outside, a better way would be to use just ONE layer of 3/4" plywood on top of the floor joists, then pour at least 3" of concrete on top of the plywood - this increases the mass of the floor, lowering resonant frequency and improving low frequency isolation.

Walls - if you're anywhere near earthquake areas, this

http://www.quikrete.com/diy/QUIKWALLSur ... ement.html

Is a much stronger wall for about the same cost. You'll want to fill all the hollow spaces in blocks with either sand or cement (cement is shown where reinforcing rods go, but sand needs to be used in OTHER cavities so there is NO AIR SPACE - then, your inner walls will become the second mass in the mass-air-mass construction, as shown in the Auralex drawing... Steve

_________________
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
thanks steve.

1 more question i hope i can explain.

after floating, the room. what i put in the floor area where the door gonna be?

i mean the 2 floors are gonna separeted like 5 to 10 cm.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:12 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
Posts: 6978
Location: West Coast, USA
Do you mean separated vertically, horizontally, or both? Can you do a basic drawing of what you mean? Steve

_________________
Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
hello steve, i will try to get a drawing.

but basically i'm talking about door frame, since the door gonna connect 2 floating rooms. how i suport the 4 door frames.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:44 am
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico DF
Heres the drawing,

or do i need to connect the floors?

thanks.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group