John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Hey guys, thanks for some great information. I have been reading along for some time now and ordered Rod's book from Amazon a few days ago. I'm looking forward to learning a lot from this forum as time goes on.

I was going to wait to register to read as much as possible before asking any stupid question but I can't help myself so please go light on me.

After reading Bryan Giles build thread, I have become very interested in how he set new joists on to his interior walls and eliminated the need for some sort of resilient channel. You can see it here.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13289&start=15

I do wonder how he was able to effectively install insulation with the existing floor joists hanging down? I haven't been able to find others using a similar method as he did....

I will attempt to give some detail of the small scope of my project.

I have a basement space which is 35' x 11'6". The 11' walls are both concrete block. As is one of the 35' wall which has the main drain pipe running the length, effectively reducing my usable space to 35x11. The other 35 foot length is actually the main support beam that runs down the center of my house and is supported by wooden posts. A few years back I used drilock to fix a moisture problem in the walls and floor, plus some exterior modifications. I have since added a vapor barrier and dricore subflooring to this section of the basement. From the top of my sub flooring to the bottom of the above floor joist is 84".

I am an double bass player and electric bass player. At this point I am looking to build a single room taking up 11x15 of this space. That I can practice in without disturbing the family above. Some day I may wish to finish the remaining 11x20 space and turn this original space into a control room.

At this point I have had all the duct work in the house redone and there is only a small space where flexible duct work will impede my ceiling height. As we speak I am moving all the old electric from that side of the basement. This initial space I will be finishing does not have any plumbing running through it but when I choose to finish the additional space I will need to move some plumbing as well.

That's probably enough information for the time being.

Here are two photos of the basement:

On the left hand side you can see where the existing support beams are this will be the location of my western facing wall with the the block to the right side of that photo being where the north facing wall will be located.

The photo on the right shows the eastern facing block wall with the sewer pipe....I hope this is helpful.

Here is a photo of the north facing block wall, you can see I will need to box out the flexible duct work and the panel behind the Double bass I will need to design a window plug to have access to my crawl space.

Here is a photo looking south of the east facing wall. The non existant 4th wall which will be south facing will start just before the window and just past the book case. Not in this photo is the clean out for the sewer line, I will again need to design a window plug to have access to this.

To give some further detail, I will frame out the support beam, rock the outside of it and insulate it on the inside. I will need to construct the 4th wall on the southern exposure. Once this is complete I will build new walls on the interior of this room.

I am hoping to use the Bryan Gilles solution with staggered ceiling joists, laying ontop of my new walls and not touching the ceiling. If that is not a workable solution I will need to use RSIC 1 clips to decouple the ceiling from the joists above.

The floor and below the interior walls I would use a neoprene pad to isolate it from the existing structure.

I am limited in headroom, as I state earlier 84" currently from the existing sub floor to the bottom of the joists. Being a Double bass player I need as much headroom as possible less then 6'8" would not allow me to play the double bass standing up and is why I am looking for a solution without losing 4.5" with RSIC1 clips and two layers of sheetrock with green glue inbetween.

I am sure my design has many flaws, I hope someone jumps in to point them out for me.

Can anyone provide me with some insight?

It might help to read this:

THE SOUNDPROOF BASEMENT. A.C,C. Warnock


Setting joists in a staggered pattern on top of walls in a basement is not unusual and if you purchased Rod's book, you will see it again in there as well, but with more detail.

Hope this helps

Thanks for that Rod's book just arrived a few minutes ago. I will be back aftre I'm done with it.....

Takes about three weeks the first time

So I've gotten through the book for at least the first time and I think I understand all the concepts pretty well, although I have to admit the compressed mineral wool above the top plates for the walls has me somewhat confused as to how that is accomplished. And how the wall is supported.

In any case after some hard thinking after finishing the book I am planning on finishing the entire 35x12 space and then use gobos to configure the room as I see fit as I have no plans on recording anybody that I am not playing with and 85% of the time I will be rehearsing with a group or doing my own practicing.

If I do this the right way the interior dimensions should be about 33'x10'6". I will have to bring a structural enigeer in to see how much mass I can add to the ceiling. In addition there are places in the ceiling where I will not be able to do so because of either pipe or duct runs. I had a hard time figuring out in the book if I do not provide mass equally to the underside of my sub floor above if it will have a significant impact and render my work useless.

In any case still lot's to think about before I start swinging the hammer, thanks for pointing me in the right direction thus far.

Pete

Somewhere in between "significant impact" and "rendered useless", I'd say.

But it all depends on how loud you are, what is up above you, and how quiet you need to be. So you MIGHT be OK with that, or you might not. Suffice it to say that the place where you don't beef up the floor above you will be the weakest point (acoustically) in your entire build. Whatever level of isolation you end up getting at that particular point is what will define the entire total level of isolation for the entire structure.

If you can't get to it from below, can you get to it from above? For example, could you take up the existing flooring, lay an extra sheet or two of plywood / MDF or some such, then put the flooring back down again? It might be far easier to do that, by the sounds of it. Quicker too, probably.

Also, an accurate, detailed SketchUp model of the basement would help, showing what can be moved, what can't, etc.

- Stuart -

I am still not very good with sketch up but I'm working on it.

The section of the basement in question is the 1st floor bathroom. In addition to that there are supply and return ducts running air up to the second floor as well as the water lines that run to the second floor as well as the waste pipe coming back from the second floor. This is all in one section in the middle of the room that is about 8x12

I am currently in the process of moving a lot of electric as much of the wiring for the floors above runs through the space I am planning on finishing. This means moving all junction boxes to an accesible area of the basement. I should be done in another week or two.

I then have to address plumbing, being an 80 year old house thing were added on over the years and they are not all recessed into the ceiling. Much of the plumbing needs to be rerouted so that none of the shut off valves will be covered up by the finished ceiling in the studio much like the electric.

With summer approaching I may put things on hold until after labor day once the electric and plumbing are done.