John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Thanks Steve.

I was contemplating the idea of running bolts all the way through. I was beginning to have the idea that for the extra amount of leveling, a couple screws just were not going to get it. This looks like it should work well. So you recommend/suggest going w/ the 3/8" thickness and they should be 3" x 3" on the angles x what length, 3"? I don't know if the 3" will fit in some area's? Going to be tight.

What if putting the 2 bolts on the same side on longer iron? Still bolting through the framing. Any thoughts or theory's?

I'll check out the other stickys...

Thanks.

Aaron, you're welcome -

Keeping in mind that the drawing is not to scale, where you need the full 3" is in the vertical leg of the angle in order to keep bolt holes far enough apart for strength. If using 1/2" bolts for levelers, the horizontal portion of the angle only needs to be about 1=1/2" maximum. The rest is just overhang, and can be trimmed off. You may even be able to find unequal angle that's either 1.5" x 3" or somewhere near that; if so it would simplify fabrication.

For the length of each piece of angle, I would not go less than 3", with holes centered 2" apart. Any closer and you run the risk of splitting or weakening the joist.

If using 2x4's instead of 2x6's for joists, you are already getting close to structural weakening - under those conditions, I'd put the levelers a bit closer together than span tables allow, relocate the bracket holes so that the mounting holes leave at least 3/4" of wood between the hole and the edge of the joist (both edges) -

If you have the room, longer pieces of angle will be stronger due to holes through the joists being further apart.

After considering stresses involved, I wouldn't recommend using brackets on only one side of joists - there could be considerable twisting force due to uneven support.

I've been thinking about an alternate design that wouldn't require more than a couple of small screws into the joist to stabilize - since the original design requires welding anyway, a little more shouldn't make much difference. The new design would only need to be maybe 2" along the joist, and stick out sideways about 1-1/4" past the joist on either side. I may get time to draw it up in a day or two... Steve

I wonder if there might be some type of a U type steel bracket or something that could slide around the edge of the 2x4? Then again, would still have to figure out a way to get a lip to put the bolts on the sides for adjusting.

Do you know of anything or some steel in a U shape w/ ears? This would help in extra support on the 2x4's and keep them from splitting too. (Basically would look like a piece of hat channel only much larger).

Any thoughts?

Oh, BTW I don't think 3/8 would be what I want. I think the 1/4" or so would be fine. The W413 Steel I beam I installed for the structure of the house has a thickness of 3/8". I'm not even going to think about trying to cut that stuff. It'll take me 2 years just to cut the pieces.

Thanks.

I realize these brackets aren't for everybody, but even a local fab shop should be able to beat the prices of the readymade stuff from the "big boys" - In my case, I'm spoiled by having stuff like

link 1

And

LInk 2

And

Link 3

If you don't have access to power tools for cutting steel, several of my ideas aren't too practical. However, you might print out the pix and take them to a local fab shop and ask for a quote - sometimes they will surprise you in a GOOD way.

I'm going to check at my steel supplier next time I'm there for any shapes like you said - meantime, here's what I've been working on, it's not finished yet but gives a few more options... Steve

Here's the other one, requires more welding but if you make the angles larger to allow the joist to sit down between the pads, you can make a real "low rider" out of it...

Steve,

The second drawing is close to what I was describing. Maybe get some rectangular shaped steel, cut it in half, so you have to U shapes. Then weld a piece of steel on each side for the flange or ears for the bolts.

Of course my problem right now is a welder, not to mention, never welded before. But I've also never built a studio before from the ground up, so it's all relative.

Hmmm...I've got the brain thinking...

This is going to be a complicated task!!! Not to mention cost. Gotta do, whatcha gotta do.



Thanks again,

Aaron

Here's another option - ever hear of "Tee Nuts"? All you'd need to do these is a drill, hammer and saw, except for the welding on of washers on the bolt heads where they meet the rubber. Even that may be unnecessary, still looking... Steve

Screwed up though - the nails would need to be angled just the opposite of the way they're drawn, so they don't pull out with load ... Steve

Here's a way to eliminate having to weld, in conjuction with the last drawing - no idea of cost, when all they have on the page is a "request for quote" section, it's usually not a good sign - still, cool possibilities -

http://www.swmanufacturing.com/sub/leveling_mounts.asp

http://www.cfi1.com/leveling-mounts.html

There's also a possibility you might be able to find something that's a replacement for washing machine feet locally. Tee nuts are available up to at least 3/8", it's worth looking into... Steve

What about some type of epoxy or construction adhesive to attach the washers to the head of the bolt?

Those are some great links Steve. I'll bet they're a pretty penny though. Much cheaper if DIY. I'll have to inquire w/ them on prices.

Thanks.

I called S&W for pricing. For part #G-06 & G-07:

G-06 is a 3/8 x 16 Threading 2" w/ 2.4 inch base is $1.58 each.
G-07 is a 3/8 x 16 Threading 4" w/ 2.4 inch base is $1.72 each.


I walked around the framing I have built for the floor already, and with the thought of using angle iron, I came up w/ approx 195 6" plates to use. Most of this is due to the different panels of the floor framing, and it's in sections due to conduit runs. It will get all tied together, but that's alot of leveling.

Now, w/ these type of mounts, I can probably scrap the angle iron. Using these levelers, and using those nuts that hammer into the wood (making sure to drill a deep enough hole for the bolt), the bolt will screw into the Tee-nut. This will also reduce the amount of leveling mounts I have to use, as well as cut down the price for not having to buy all the angle iron, and saws, and welding, etc. This sounds more pratical for multiple reasons.

I didn't quite understand what you were drawing on the last drawing w/ the three 2x4's??? I need to get these pix developed so I can post them on what I've got done so far w/ the floor. Give me a couple days on that.

That looks like a good solution though. Also, if I had to use the angle iron, it would take up space I really don't have in area's where the conduits are.

I'm also attaching a pic of the T-Nut...

Thanks again,

Aaron

Yeah, the tee nuts are what I drew in the last pic. The two smaller pieces of wood on either side are "nailers" that would nail into the joist. Reason being that if you drill holes in the joist itself, it will change the span that's possible with that size lumber by weakening the joist. Using "nailers" on each side would still center the load but not weaken the joist.

An alternative might be to alternate sides every few feet to cut down on parts count, but I'm not sure that's a good idea.

That price is hard to beat for the levelers - you could probably just glue them onto your pucks and be set... Steve

Here's a pic of the part number S&W gave...

Each piece has a max load of 250 lbs.

Steve,

What if, in place of the nailers, I were to place a 6" piece of flat steel bar on each side and screwed it in? Would this give ample support where all the drilling is? Or perhaps even those metal pieces they use for rafters that attach them together? You just hammer them on, and maybe add a screw or two to keep them in place.

Any thoughts or theories as to if something like this might work?

By the way, one of my clients has access to a welder. So this could be a possibility still. May have to do some time trading...

Thanks,

Aaron

Steve,

Another quickie on ceiling/wall stuff. I've been once again browsing through different/new postings on acoustical treatments, etc. I think I've come to the conclusion that the main wall around the control room will be Frame w/ Roxul and 2 layers of Gypsum. The inner walls/angled walls (soffits, etc.), these will all be used for absorbing/bass trapping, etc. The inner walls will consist of baffles/insulation, etc and for 2 mix, the front walls will probably have cedar panels or tongue & groove or something of the sort. For 5.1, have panels that can be hung on the front walls for absorption.

The wall to ceiling issue still has me baffled??????? Looking at these other threads...perhaps bring the walls just below the joists, say 1/4 or 1/2". Layer the walls w/ 2 layers of Gypsum. Ok, place RC on ceiling joists, and 2 layers of Gypsum. Now for the angles in the ceiling, create a so called false ceiling. I can use smaller framing probably, use some more insulation or suspend some very short panels. Use a fabric or burlap or something to cover it all up, w/ some nice trim to help hold the fabric.

Hmmm...will this possibly work out? I'm in the full swing of things, and I'm probably only a couple weeks away, if that from getting ready to frame walls. The floor is coming along quickly. If I can figure out everything on this leveling, and get the leveling mounts figured out, I hope to have the floor done by next weekend.

Thanks,

Aaron

Hey eveyone, I've posted the latest pix on the floor framing, etc...

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8912#8911