John Sayers' Design Forum

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

A World of Experience
Click Here for Information on John's Services
It is currently Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:26 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: My Cloud Design
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:42 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
P-E-R-F-E-C-T!!! I'll get cracking on adding hard tops and lights to my clouds!

I might just modify my current 4' x 6' clouds with hard tops, and build a new one similar to MMS' for my drums (also with a hard top). Is there any difference in building the cloud "flat" as pictured and hanging it at a 12 degree angle vs. building the cloud itself at a "v" angle of 12 degrees (lights in the middle with each side of the cloud drooping downwards at 12 degrees)? Sorry for all the Q's - you have already been more than generous. I found the awesome rigid-backed absorber Excel calculator - so I'm sure I can determine the appropriate air gap and ponder 4" vs 8" thickness on my own :)

Thank you so much for the hard top confirmation! :D

_________________
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Cloud Design
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:02 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11970
Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
building the cloud itself at a "v" angle of 12 degrees (lights in the middle with each side of the cloud drooping downwards at 12 degrees)
I don't think you'd want to build it as a concave surface! (higher in the middle, lower on each side). I reckon that would tend to focus reflections back at the mix position, which is kind of the exact opposite of the purpose of a cloud! If you really have to angle it, then it would arguably be less damaging to angle the sides UP, and leave the MIDDLE lower, so you have a convex surface (as seen from below). However, that would still leave a concave surface above the cloud, and I have no idea what that would do. My guess is that it would not be too bad.

My 0.02


- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Cloud Design
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:42 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
Cool. I'll just leave it flat, and hang it at an angle. I thought building the cloud at an angle would further scatter the reflections in different directions. I saw a post where John helped a guy with hard topped clouds - and they appear to be angled in such a fashion (2 separate cloud panels forming a quasi vaulted ceiling - where my idea was to make a single cloud with that angle with lights in the middle:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14058&p=98412
(2nd to last post)
download/file.php?id=32059&mode=view


Also - you might recall I'm treating a rehearsal room / tracking room - not a C.R. (You also helped me with the 1/2 in 1/2 out splayed wall a few weeks ago - turned out great so far!).

Thanks for your input! :cool:

_________________
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Cloud Design
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:13 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 11970
Location: Santiago, Chile
Hey Randy. Glad to hear that it is working out for you!

The image that you linked too isn't really the same as what you described: John shows two clouds, angled, but with a gap between them. :)

- Stuart -

_________________
I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Cloud Design
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:42 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
Got'cha - and makes sense. I'm still tackling our ugly room - but the info I recieved here with regard to the clouds should help my 50Hz issue significantly IMO!

This place and the lovely people here absolutely rule! Thanks so much :D

_________________
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Cloud Design
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:42 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
One quick cloud Q - What is the recommended thickness for the top of a hard topped cloud? Is the top part of the system and will resonate/damp accordingly - or do I just want it as stiff as possible to reflect the sound? I'm tentatively planing on using a 1/2" thick top to keep the weight down - but I can go with a 3/4" top if needed. I'll be building a 12" thick cloud with less dense 5,000 rayls/m pink insulation (opposed to 703) as this seems to have MUCH greater effect in the 50Hz range I need to address...

Thanks!

_________________
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: My Cloud Design
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:42 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Houston, TX
Well - I went ahead and made a new drum cloud. It is 4' x 8' x 12" - I used regular pink insulation (approx 6,000 Rayls/m), 1"x12" timber for the frame, and a 1/2" B/C plywood top. I loosely braced the top with a 1"X4" running across the middle (as pictured) - and I put lights down the middle as well. It is sealed very well (assembled with Tight-Bond-II + Screws and caulked with latex caulk). I stole MMS's string/eyelet concept to hold the insulation in place (great idea!). This thing weighs a TON - so I'll likely have to increase my ceiling eyelets to the next size up to make sure they don't pull out of the ceiling (means another round of drilling into the concrete ceiling with a hammer drill - oh joy! :( ).

I really hope this will help with the 50Hz ceiling mode I was getting. If it helps the 50Hz null at the drum throne, then I'll replace the other two 4" thick 703 clouds with these 12" designs - and re-purpose the 703 from the original clouds for super chunks, etc. It will be hung at an angle - roughly 8" at one end and 16" at the other (averages to 12" - the same depth as the cloud - seemed to provide a good absorption coefficient around ~50Hz).

A few pics below. I'm thinking I'll leave the frame unfinished as the scope of this rehearsal room project is not very fancy - but I might paint it. Still pondering that part.


Any suggestions if I build more of these? Thanks!!! :cool:


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group