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 Post subject: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:36 pm 
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I contacted Homasote requesting absorption test data and received the attached report. Interestingly a membrane effect is quite apparent.

Looking at the absorption data I would not recommend this for any amateur design application.

Andre


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:38 am 
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Thanks for going above and beyond as usual Andre!

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:48 am 
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That's very interesting! Thanks, Andre! Great find.

Any idea what they mean by the sample being a "perforated plug"? In what way was it "perforated"? Is that something to do with the test procedure, or did it have holes in it?

It would be great if they would repeat that test for a broader range of frequencies. There's some interesting hints in there, but more data would be nice.

I'm intrigued...


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:56 am 
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Soundman2020 wrote:
That's very interesting! Thanks, Andre! Great find.
You are welcome, as always.

Quote:
Any idea what they mean by the sample being a "perforated plug"? In what way was it "perforated"? Is that something to do with the test procedure, or did it have holes in it?
It does not help your using the pronoun. The report is from the testing laboratory. The perforations are an integral part of the test specimen.

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It would be great if they would repeat that test for a broader range of frequencies. There's some interesting hints in there, but more data would be nice.
An important clue to the importance Homasote corporation makes of it being an acoustic absorbent is that the test report is from 1967. The frequencies tested are what is required for NRC calculation.

Andre

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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:10 pm 
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I received a copy of a test to C423.

Enjoy!

Andre


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:35 pm 
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Cool! I have NO idea how you come up with all this stuff, Andre, but it's great! You seem to have a magic hat, that you can just pull this stuff out of any time it is needed... :)

There's very interesting data in that lab report. Absorption peak around 125 Hz... Hmmmmm.... It's not a huge peak, at 0.55, but useful.... and suggestive!

Thanks, Andre!


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:17 am 
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Location: Cork Ireland
Andre The Librarian..... or Oracle?
Thanks Andre.
I have noted that some commercial batt traps have quite a ring to them when thumped.
As I am a drummer I have a Tunebot, which measures the frequency of impulsive tones.
I must try a RealTrap and a GIK outdoors, soon, as the weather is getting good here.
DD


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:38 am 
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Greetings from the Homasote Tech Desk!

AVare wrote:
An important clue to the importance Homasote corporation makes of it being an acoustic absorbent is that the test report is from 1967.


Andre is correct in that acoustical improvement has never been the primary focus of Homasote, even though our very first sound test, done in 1931, was for NRC. Here is that test, if any of you is interested in a little history.

Attachment:
1931 NRC Test.pdf


In fact after the 1967 sound test we received a letter basically saying that Homasote would never be a good acoustical panel. here's that letter.

Attachment:
NRC 1967 letter.pdf


The problem with all that is I hear a great deal of anecdotal evidence that the Homasote substrate does indeed provide an interesting degree of acoustical improvement. It could be that 125 Hz bump for starters. When I installed a number of raw Homasote panels in my small singer/songwriter studio it noticeably improved the sound of my vocals and particularly my acoustic guitar recordings. You know how small rooms can be in that general frequency range.

But I also speculate that there is a good degree of scattering going on due to the unique nature of the boards surface. There are some very interesting surface anomalies that come from the manufacturing process. I would be curious about how you folks perceived that possibility. I have done some research on testing for Scattering Coefficient but many acoustical folks seem a bit skeptical of that.

For what it's worth, Homasote 440 SoundBarrier plays heavily in the multi-family sound control market where it is a great sub for poured gypsum on floors and does pretty much what Green Glue does on walls. But then that would be a different discussion and that's not what I'm here for. Now that I am here, I intend to hang around a bit and see what I can learn from folks like Andre Vare who know a whole lot more about all this than I do


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:14 am 
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Hi there "sgleaosn". Thanks for that very interesting information, adding to what Andre already found.

It would be good if you could introduce yourself, since you seem to be speaking the Homasote Company, which would be great, since your product is used by many of our members: having a direct connection would be useful, especially for those members in various places around the world who have tried to find your product in their countries, without success.

Most members who use your product, want it to make bass trap "hangers" for their studios, since that's what John Sayers himself recommends and has used extensively in his own designs, as have numerous forum members. It does seem to be the best material for that, although some people have used other materials successfully too.

So please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things! :)

Hopefully Andre will reply to your comments about the acoustic properties you mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:37 am 
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Sgleaosn:

Welcome to John L Sayrt's Recording Stdio Design (JLS RSD). I am glad you decided to join in. The information that you provided is great!!

I am not certain what Soundman2020 is looking for further discussion. Hopefully he will expand on that' In the mean time, enjoy!

Andre

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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:23 am 
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Hey Stuart...........I have taken care of a bit of housekeeping on my profile.

While I will be pleased to help anyone interested in the Homasote product, I will be spending my time here learning.

Thanks for the welcome, Andre.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:59 am 
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SGleason wrote:
While I will be pleased to help anyone interested in the Homasote product, I will be spending my time here learning.

Thanks for the welcome, Andre.
Welcome to JLS RSD and you are welcome.

Regarding information on Homasote in sound isolation applications, in studio apllications the sub 125 Hz TL is important Fortunately our bible of gypsum board sound isolation (IR 761) has TL data down to 50 Hz for over 350 wall assemblies. Only two use any material resembling Homasote and from I can glean it is probably Sonopan. You can read how it (and resilent channel) compre to regular walls here

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1499&hilit=below+100Hz

Do you have any TL test data below 125 Hz for Homasote walls that you can share with us? Sorry about the wordiness but if can share it please do.

Andre

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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:58 pm 
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Sonopan is a very different substrate than Homasote.

The best we have for low frequency TL data is 100 Hz and 125 Hz. For what it's worth:

Single Wood Stud (FG Insulation) - 27 dB @100 Hz, 28 dB @125 Hz
Single Wood Stud (MW Insulation) - 25 dB @100 Hz, 29 dB @125 Hz
5/8" Type C GWB both sides
Homasote 440 SoundBarrier (source side only)

Single 25 ga. Metal Stud (FG Insulation) - 30 dB @100 Hz, 36 dB @125 Hz
Single 25 ga. Metal Stud (MW Insulation) - 27 dB @100 Hz, 34 dB @125 Hz
5/8" Type X GWB both sides
Homasote 440 SoundBarrier (source side only)

Drywall screwed only to Homasote in the field of the wall
Adhesive beads between GWB and 440 in stud bays

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:59 am 
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Thank you Steve!

The 100 Hz TL is 5 to 8 dB better than the walls with the fibre board in IR 761. The results are on pdf pages 252 and 253. The question is how the MAM resonance is affected.

Andre

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 Post subject: Re: Homasote Test
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Thanks for that reference to IR 761. I have that in front of me often. In TL-93-192 they tested with fiber board on both sides of the wall and (2x) GWB on one side (STC 50). While they do not go into the fastening protocols, it's a very good bet that the GWB was fastened through that fiber board and into the studs. With the Homasote wall, Homasote is on the source side only and the GWB is fastened only to the Homasote in the field of the wall. I believe that makes a measurable improvement in a wood stud assembly but maybe not so much withe steel studs. I am unclear as to where in the frequency range that improvement is most manifest.

That wall tested at STC 53 with (1x) GWB on both sides. Here is the test (redacted for file size):

Attachment:
STC53Redacted.pdf


Regarding MAM resonance, When the company tested a single wood stud wall some years ago they found that the assembly performed better with the Homasote on just one side. I theorize that the cavity resonance becomes "asymmetrical", if you will, when there is an imbalance like that (GWB facing Homasote). I do not know how to quantify that but it looks to be improving the performance of the assembly at the low end.....possibly making the cavity perform as if it was deeper.

Love to hear your comments on that.

EDIT:

Just reading in NRC 4068 where Bradley references the "stiffness of the contained air".....definitely pondering that.


Steve


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