John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

"and they tell me they don't use it, and can't think of a reason they would need to:"


Installing terracotta tile roofing requires lead (plomo) for flashing. You locate a dealer of commercial grade roof covers and you should locate a supplier of lead used as flashing in an assortment of widths...none wide as a full door but a few layers placed side-by-side and glued will get you through this phase.

_________________
Brien Holcombe
_____________________________________________
Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

Thanks for the lead xSpace !!

Why the guys who sell roofing materials said nothing ....

I'll get this info to my brother right away ... he has several roofing subs.

Thanks again.

A day of continued research, phone calls, & web search ...

Primarily the door details ... had a very nice conversation with one of the
Zero International reps. He was very generous with his insights & explanations.
He also provided me contacts to local suppliers.

The main focus was on the design/requirements and build integration. He also wanted
to alert me to field experience findings when dealing with massive doors. Among them, being,
the traffic level.

Concerns on hinge mounts. He suggested looking at a 'pivot' mounting system. After
citing several examples of potential problems of both wood & metal jambs.

We talked about the 'lead-sheet' ... got a couple areas to check.

Sealing: mentioned a couple of 'systems' for me to consider. Might be dropping the GM seal
for one of the adjustable designs.

Threshold: The 'guillotine' design MAY be the way to go.

Just getting all this together. Much left still.

More research ....

Getting some info back from my HVAC guy.

I can honestly say that I know very little with regards to HVAC ... I'd like to
post this info and get some feedback.

They did a 'heat loss' and fresh air requirement for the Control Room [12'x16'x7].

Two possible components would be:

1. HRV is Fantech Model # SH704
http://fantech.net/download/403297-sh70 ... BaYVWyCUCA

2. the mini-split ac unit is EMI KWCA09A0, The mini-split provides 9000btu's of cooling.
So any mini-split we choose just needs to be 9000btu's for proper cooling.
http://www.lafayetteheating.com/pdf/duc ... ctless.pdf


This is some preliminary info with specs that I found and linked. The NOISE level of the
internal unit seems rather HIGH ... also, the SEER rating looks very low

But like he says ... we have other choices for 9k btu units.

As mentioned before ... I'm a gonna need some guidance here ........ as usual

Thanks!!!!

the HRV would be external to your room and manage the air exchange, the split unit would have the cooling and fan unit inside your room to cool/heat it. another option, using a concealed duct unit so the air/heat/cooling are all done via ducts so the penetration you make for the air does all of the work.

_________________
Glenn

Thank-you Glenn ... gonna pass info to HVAC guy.

Well ... lot going on. Yesterday was out on research mission on the door system.

Have a local dealer that has the needed parts, INCLUDING the sheet-lead. They do
commercial installs for hospitals, dentists, etc ... so have lead sheets available. We also
talked over the pivot hinges [which seems to be a good way to go]. Also looked at a
selection of automatic door closers, and commercial seals.

This morning, the drywall crew came in

I broke out a couple cases of Green Glue, and a box of 2-1/2" screws ... and we went to
town. As instructed, use of the thick paint sticks provided the perimeter spacers.
To NOTE: we DID the layout in the 'opposite' direction, and all seams were overlapped as
Glenn had instructed.

I had also requested an additional crew member for this second layer install. Worked out great !
We 'test fit' each piece ... then laid them down for the 2 tubes per sheet of GG. I tacked
in the initial placement, and they finished off the schedule of 12" [GG says we had a 15 min
window to work in] ... Pictures are coming, but I must say that this round went very
smooth, and nobody got hurt !

We did take time to talk about the sonic changes that have transpired. Of course, it
sounds like an echo chamber in there ...

We called it a day [few hours] with the ceiling done. I want to go in and caulk the new
install BEFORE we hit the second wall layer. When the wall perimeters are caulked, I'll feel
more confidence have the 'final gaps' properly sealed.

Everything went great, and am very happy to get this part done.

Walls are next, ... door to follow. Research on-going

Getting the placed vac'd up, will post pix tonite.

Thanks again for your continued guidance and insights !!!!!!!!

Sincerely.

"As instructed, use of the thick paint sticks provided the perimeter spacers."

What does this statement mean?

_________________
Brien Holcombe
_____________________________________________
Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

Hi Brien,

We used 1/4" paint stir sticks taped to the perimeter edges to maintain offset.

Got a few pixs:

Layout out the board for the ceilings' second layer.

After a test fit ... we applied 2 GG tubes/ 4x8 sheet.

Using our 1/4" paint sticks taped to the wall at strategic location, we then full schedule
screwed drywall with 2-1/2" coarse @ 12". Because we had dual ceiling joist per 'beam', the
first layer was screwed to one side, while this 2nd layer was screwed to the 'other' side.


Tonite I went in after clean-up, and added some 3/8" backer rod, and then caulk sealed all
the ceiling perimeters [no pix of that part yet].
Once it drys, I can triple check seal before we start the 2nd wall layer using the same offset
and GG procedure.

I must say, with where we have the current construction at, the level of isolation has been
quite surprising. Although no measurements, the sound of the shop vac in the upstairs parlor
can only be heard coming from the kitchen area ... and even then it goes into the background.
As for the downstairs family room [1/2 level up and adjacent to basement], the vac can NOT
be heard We only have insulation placed in on the outer wall, and a 5 foot gap
where the door is to be framed. Foot steps from above have been dramatically reduced to
a distant 'thud' [not a very good descript], and mainly heard from the kitchen area bleeding
through the open door section. I know we have much more to do ... but it is very encouraging!
AND they say that GG takes some 30 days to cure to a level of full effectiveness.

Anyway ... just wanted to share some pixs & observations!

THANKS!

Trouble report ....

OK ... went through the caulking procedure of ceiling perimeter.

Further inspection showed a couple of screw holes from MISSing the
ceiling joist

Now before I attempt to plug the screw hole, I wanted the Experts' instruction to fix.
[especially before I do something stupid] This IS the final ceiling layer.

Do I try to pack something in the hole?
Put the screw back in ?
Mud ?
Caulk ?

It sure is tough to build 'air tight'

"We used 1/4" paint stir sticks taped to the perimeter edges to maintain offset."

Very clever you Good idea!


You can either stick the screw back in of apply your acoustic caulk into the hole and then mud over the hole from the missed joist screw.

_________________
Brien Holcombe
_____________________________________________
Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

ah ... Thank-you xSpace !

Really hated to have mess-ups like that, but it seems all too easy to get
disorientated.
Not sure I can keep the screw in while maintaining a countersink ... if not, I go the
caulked hole & mud procedure.
BTW ... don't tell Glenn ... if he see's me messin' up his design ... well ... you know ...
he'll be ticked

On the progress front ...
Had the boys in for a very short time today. Started the 2nd layer drywall ON the walls.
The usual 2 tubes on GG went on the, now, horizontal install. Got about 1/2 of the walls
done. Looking to get together Thursday to complete this layer UP to where we can to the
door area.

As for the door, well, we only have the basic materials lined up. I need to talk with
the carpenter about the hanging system. The debate between HD hinges, or going with
the Pivot hinge design [which is the way I'm being 'swayed' to. --- no pun intended]

Today I also received my quote from the HVAC guy
oh my
Once I can go back and read the email I'll look up the units and check out the spec sheet.
At this point, let us just say that this 'aspect' of the project constitutes a chunk of $$$.

All the news that's fit to print! A 'way to early in the morning' rehearsal scheduled for
... the morning

Thanks again! Slowly coming together!
Time to hit that 'DONATE' button
Sincerely

Progress report.

Yesterday the 'crew' was back in on the 2nd drywall layer !

Because the basement floor has a slope to it ... we needed a strategy for
applying this 2nd layer in the long, horizontal direction. Since the wall to ceiling provided
the best 'square', the decision was to mount sheets starting from the top of the wall. Once
GG'd and gapped from the ceiling, they were full schedule screwed using 2-1/2" coarse.
When it got to the lower section, we measured off the varied distance from the bottom
of the 2nd layer down to the offset 'paint sticks' on the floor. The idea was to RAISE the
bottom piece in place.

To aid in this [seemingly backward] approach, it was MY given mission to locate [and buy]
'drywall lifts'. And here they be:

I must say ... these saved MANY a finger nail, and possibly a few fingers in the process!

These lifts may also come in handy for the NEXT part of construction.

Today I had to make purchase decisions for the studio door. With the carpenter gathering
the solid core door & jamb materials, I needed to get hardware & beef-up.
After much reading here, along with phone calls to reps ... and talking with firms that
actually use this stuff! I purchased the STANLEY FBB199-32D Heavy-duty, 5 knuckle hinges.
I got the 3 pack ... stainless steel ... satin finish

I've been told by 2 local reps that these will do the job ... and THEN some. They were
fully aware of the design intent and weight. They look and feel pretty solid ... and these
bad boyz aren't cheap ! But , hey ... this'll be a heck of a door, and functionality
AND safety is a must

I then went to the metal supply company that the commercial door company hooked me
up with. A rather 'nice' lady working there invited me in to here what trouble I was up too
She took a sincere interest in what I was needing to do, and said they have the material
I need ... and can supply it either as a full sheet, or cut into strips! cool.
For a 3'x7' door ... 21 sq-ft. There is an OBVIOUS construction concern with this door. NOT
so much building it, as it is, INSTALLING it ! The other MAIN factor is the isolation
performance. Again ... decision.
I know that Rod recommends 8 lbs/sq-ft ... however ... the material I can get is 4 lbs/sq-ft.
So the decision is to go with a layer of this ... and IF need be ... we 'could' add another
layer. The door hinges were spec'd to more than handle the larger weight. So ... we'll see
how this plays out.

Later tonite I'm going to continue backer rod and caulking perimeters of the new install.

Thanks everyone !!!
Sincerely

One option is to assemble the door in place. Get the core hung and then add the mass layers. MadMax took this approach on his studio build since each door ended up being 600+ pounds... Even a 300-400lb door will be a challenge to stand up while attaching the hinges.

_________________
Glenn

Hi Glenn ... I do appreciate the words of wisdom ! [and the heads-up on MadMax build].

I've relay'd your message to my carpenter. Basically, I need to get the basic door and frame
located and installed so that we can complete the framing of the 2 walls. We have the top
area [above the door] drywalled [small piece], in order to maintain the 'interlock' of the
drywall layers.

I've also located a supply of 'homosote' [what the heck kind of a name is that] ... FINALLY
back at my lumber supplier ... had a whole stack of 1/2" 4x8 sheets. I HOPE that the 1/2"
is acceptable as a 'buffer' between the door jamb and the framing ??? [as the perpetual
reminder that every fraction of an inch is most welcome ... d*mn low ceilings ... but that's
all we got.

As for the list of other things too do ... still looking at the HVAC and venting issue. Been
going through the various threads here, reading up on 'silencer' designs... while at the
same time trying to reason out the best placement for them.

Once that door goes in ... the next thing will be getting electrical into the room [concerned
that this door is NO match for an extension cord]

meanwhile ... I've got caulking in all the perimeter seams, and even took another shot at
'mudding' the screw heads and joining seams. [I did NOT touch the areas where caulk is].
Obviously ... there will be a question or three when it comes time to mud,tape, and corner
beads .... As may be seen ... my 'mudding' skills have not not yet PEAKED

A coupla pix ... and YES ... these are NOT the old ones from the first layer ...

Here's the wall ceiling GAP ...


And a shot from outside the door area to the front part of the room ... the acoustic panels
go into the room as SOON as possible ... just so I can stand being in there


Well ... early AM rehersal for another important gig ...
Hoping this week a door is in place

Thanks again!
Sincerely


---- EDIT ---

Ahh ... got a question installing this homosote boarder around the jamb.

Looking at p. 107 in Rods' book [2nd ed] ...

Am I mis-reading this ?!?! Does he want the homosote ONLY on the SIDES on the jamb?
Or are we supposed to also do the TOP of the jamb where it meets the framing ???

It's not clear from the illustration ... and I find no mention in his test [unless I missed it], but
it would seem 'strange' to NOT isolate the top portion ... but I don't know

Too this point ... I'm also NOT sure how to approach installing this? From what I gather, this
homosote is NOT the most durable product, so it would seem that trying to slide a piece into
the gap could be quite messy. I'm thinking that I could spray adhesive onto the jamb OR
the framing, and try to guide the [quite heavy] door WITH jamb into place ... but ...

Sure could use some 'words of wisdom' here ... or better yet ... Step By Step instructions

As mentioned ... I currently have a reserved section on the side wall for the door. We have
not YET cut the floor plates [both walls] where the threshold would be. There is no framing
[kings, jacks, etc] yet.

During all this, I am also trying to maintain an 'open door' spacing from the 'kick-out' walls
so that SHOULD I be installing an acoustic panel [offset 4" ???] on the door, that the door
can be opened [at least] 90*.

"To aid in this [seemingly backward] approach, it was MY given mission to locate [and buy]
'drywall lifts'. And here they be:"

Seems like you must be doing something correct, if you located a tool that already existed, the drywall tradesmen use to do...well, the very same thing.

_________________
Brien Holcombe
_____________________________________________
Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.