John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Sorry Glenn, with inside the room, do you mean the cleats go trough the drywall after
the drywall has been fastened to the resilient channels or on the tree studs before the drywall has
been placed ?

Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

screw in either anchors or into the resilient channel. it sits on the drywall face.

_________________
Glenn

My apologies Glenn , I do not understand/comprehend your recommendations from a cognitive perspective.

Glenn
Q) Is it a correct presumption that when using cleats they are placed
on the drywall studs before the drywall goes on as compared to using the other method you
earlier recommended, are attached through the drywall onto the resilient channels?

I might be over complicating things but I really do not understand what you are typing.

Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

let's assume you have all the drywall completed. you have a blank room. you would attach the French cleats on the drywall surface - either with drywall anchors or by carefully screw into the resilient channel (or hat channel - assuming you use iso clips). the absorbers then have a corresponding cleat on them which hangs on it.

_________________
Glenn

Thank you Glenn!

Have a few questions related to your clarification.

Q1) Is this the sort of anchor I would need?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bJGfACyssY&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP0E2013E83DAE698D

Q2) Any particular drywall anchors you recommend Glenn?

Q3) Are they any advantages/disadvantages to drilling the cleats into the resilient channels as compared to the drywall?

Q3) When applying sound caulk. Do you "cover up" any eventual holes that are made after the cleats have been attached to the drywall anchors or is it advisable to
approach this in a particular way?

An update on the projects progress; unfortunately the electrician is in the hospital taking care of one of his family members; My family extends its best wishes and
kindest regards to him and his loved ones.



Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

no real advantage for putting it into the resilient channel unless you're not using anchors. i like either of these two products: http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/m ... sure-wall/ (drill point anchors) and for long deep areas - http://www.toggler.com/pdf/TOGGLER_catalog.pdf - the heavy duty toggler as it allows you to fish it through 3-4-5 layers of drywall.

_________________
Glenn

Thank you Glenn!

On the caulk question Glenn I presume
that caulking thoroughly by covering any holes is all you need right?



Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

caulk is your friend seal everything. if you have a large gap, use backer rod to plug it then caulk.

_________________
Glenn

Thanks Glenn!

Don't mean to be redundant Glenn but I still have some questions concerning the Flush mount speaker stands
and insulation.

The flush mount stands I constructed have a gap were the air can cool the studio monitors of 270 mm.

The insulation i purchased for sound treatment purposes has a density of 50 kg per cubic meter and it is 80 mm thick.
270mm - 160mm (to cover the four sides of the flush mount stands) leave me with an air intake of 110mm.

Q1) I know you recommended not using hangers because of the limited space I have but would using hangers not be a practical
way of insuring proper air intake going to the monitors?

Q2) I am going to have a considerable amount of space between the monitor stands behind the broadband absorber that is going to be in between them.
The broadband absorber are going to be removable in order to make sure that I can get to the monitors if needed.

Filling this space with with low density fluffy insulation would be messy and itchy. If I go with the sound treatment insulation it would be expensive.
I want to use the 50 kg per cubic meter insulation on the saw, the broadband absorbers, the sound cloud and the bass traps (plan to use 2 x 80mm for them).
I have currently 43 square meters to my disposal.

Does it not makes sense making hangers that I could hang from the ceiling to cover the 320 mm gap that stretches between the monitors from the floor
all the way up to the ceiling Glenn (might be less itchy if the insulation hangs in an organized way )?
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5518&p=38268&hilit=build+hanger#p38268
To make sure that the ceiling does not carry to much weight ( the sound cloud can not be over 20 kilograms)
I can make a simple wood frame that can sustain the weight of the hangers.


Q3) I assume that the insulation needed for the flush mount construction does not have to be of the same density as the sound treatment.
What density/brands do you recommend for sound insulation Glenn? I think I read in a thread that you need low density insulation for hangers, is that correct?

Q4) As far as the MDF and the flush mount construction is concerned, is it enough to have only the face plate (the front side visible in the control room) made out of MDF (and the sealed box
with an open back for air (rear ported monitors) containing the monitors but not the sides of the monitor stretching up to the ceiling)?

Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

MDF is good for the face plate and speaker box - open back is fine. if you can put in hangers, do so, if not consider wrapping your low desnity insultion in a loose cloth bags (or bags) which you can hang on hooks. use 15kg/m3 for light insulation needs. you could construct a frame to span the room to support the bulk of the cloud weight - maybe even steel tubes for example - ensure they can support the weight on the span and perhaps as backup some ceiling hooks and chain in the middle.

_________________
Glenn

Thank you so much Glenn for the (always) insightful information!


An update; while waiting on the electrician I decided to start varnishing the studio door we made.

Here are some links for those of you out there who need to varnish wood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zum813aR9Q
http://www.essortment.com/yourself-tips-applying-wood-varnish-properly-12141.html

After the door is complete (one side of the door is done) I will start assembling the wood frame for the broadband absorbers
that are going to be placed after the saws and after that I'll (I do not want to start on the saws and the flush mounts until the drywall is up
in order to insure that everything is as symmetrically accurate as possible) might start on the bass traps.

My hesitation with regards to starting on the bass traps is that the room (after the drywall is up) might prove to be in need of either heavy bass trapping (lower frequencies)
compared to a more broadband (mid-low) absorption. It might be more sensible to acoustically measure the room first.

As far as the sound cloud is concerned there are some designs where the back of the cloud is wider then the front, others are angled.
My presumption is that it would be pragmatic to wait until the room is measured before engaging in the construction of the sound cloud.
I think I can make the cloud under 20 KG (including lights) which means I do not need to construct a frame to support the weight of the cloud (really would like to
avoid that if possible )

I'll post some pics of the door when it is done.

Glenn I have some questions regarding how to properly design a sound cloud.
I have collected these links (see below) but feel I need more information in order to properly construct the sound cloud.


http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15773&p=112039&hilit=knauf+insulation#p112039
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11107&p=100555&hilit=make+cloud#p100555
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2916&hilit=make+cloud

Q2) I understand that if you leave an air gap after placing a 8mm (or is it 4 mm Glenn?)MDF board caulk to the back of the sound cloud it is possible to absorb lower frequencies more efficiently, Is this correct?

Q2) If you use a 160 mm thick insulation instead of 80 mm insulation then you also absorb lower frequencies better without killing the high end of the spectrum, Is this correct?

Q3) Which of the the two above questions (Q1 versus Q2) is the best method to contain both low,medium and high frequencies?

Q4) If my presumption of sealing the cloud with MDF is correct, is it possible to use a router to router the sides of the cloud in order to reduce the total weight of the cloud?

Q5) What kind of cloth/plastic do you recommend Glenn in order to keep the insulation particles from penetrating the cloth and getting into the room (I know you mentioned something about the cloth; do you have any links/recommendations Glenn?)



Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

Here is the pics of the door after it has been varnished and the door handles been put into place; it still needs some tree molding to cover up the "ugly parts".

Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

That is a beautiful door, I would have installed three hinges, all things considered with the weight, and moved the top hinge more to the top about 7 inches rather than the current placement.

Still, nice looking

_________________
Brien Holcombe
_____________________________________________
Sound: You can't stop it, you can only try to contain it.

Thank you Brien!

Your comment is encouraging. I think you are right about the hinges, so far they are holding, the door has been up a few months
before the varnish was applied to it.

My goal is to make the door look better by using the molding when the mix room is closed to being completed.

Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

use the MDF on plywood to ensure a rigid structure. you can route out parts to lighten. see the cloud example i posted on JohnH's thread. i would go with the deeper insulation if your headroom can accommodate. 3.5mil plastic sheet will work. cloth - any fire retardant treated cloth of your choice will suffice.

_________________
Glenn