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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:46 am 
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Location: Derbyshire UK
Hi all
I thought it was time i shared the progress of my garden studio I posted my original plans in july 2013.
The primary aim of the studio/music room is to set up all my guitar equipment (amps / electric guitar acoustics etc but be able to jam in there and do some basic recording no drumkits no full band knocking out 120db but i envisaged levels of around 85-90dB db if i had a vocal pa and guitar amp but never cranked up.Im hoping for a sound reduction of 40+dB
As you can see from the photos things are moving on.
The concrete foundations are at least 0.6m deep with concrete slab filled with celotex insulation dpm and brick wall at bottom.
timber frame of 4x2 wall 6x2 roof with 2 layers 18mm osb3 with celotex insulation in the top layer and 100m rwa45 underneath outer roof finish is grp.
18mm osb3 walls
50mm airgap
breather membrane
oak cladding

im at a critical point now where internally most of the walls and ceiling are sealed with acoustic sealant and the rwa45 insulation is in place, all wiring is in.
my original plan was to fit resilliant chanel (which i have bought already)to the walls and ceiling then 2 layers of 15mm plasterboard ,acoustically sealed as described on here.
As i wanted to use it as a garden room also i decided on aluminium framed glass french doors
the highest spec i can get have a Rw value of 42db Rw +c 40db Rw+ctr 36db im hoping to order these this week.


my questions are really. If i go with the resilliant chanel with 2 layers 15mm plasterboard walls and ceiling will i achieve a sufficient value of dB in sound reduction?
The other option is a complete room within this room with another set of doors internally

any thoughts or questions would be greatly appreciated.

thankyou


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Last edited by Crushturtle on Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:29 am 
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Location: Derbyshire UK
Can anyone give me advice on my questions in either of these posts?

My original plan was to go with the rc then 2 layers 15 mm plasterboard on walls and ceiling
I realise the door is a weak point but it is staying as a glass double door.
I'm just trying to convince myself wether I should now scrap the idea and go with an additional 2x4 isolated inner framing for the walls spaced an inch from the existing framing and then provide a inner set of double solid doors opening inwards.

Then add another ceiling resting on this ,the problem I have is height and due to a central bracing beam I don't believe I can build the new ceiling so it is inside the original.

If I can find a solution then I may be able to update the room and be able to play with a full band inside.

Again any advice at this stage would be greatly received.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:04 pm 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Progress! I love progress! :) Congratulations on getting off the ground.

Quote:
i envisaged levels of around 85-90dB db if i had a vocal pa and guitar amp but never cranked up.Im hoping for a sound reduction of 40+dB
Very reasonable goals, and very do-able.

Quote:
my questions are really. If i go with the resilliant chanel with 2 layers 15mm plasterboard walls and ceiling will i achieve a sufficient value of dB in sound reduction?
Theoretically, yes. But you seem to have a three-leaf system there!

I see that you have an outer leaf, which is the wood siding on the outside of the framing, then you say you have a 50mm air gap, the a layer of OSB? That makes your second leaf. Then you want to have another air gap, and put drywall on RC: That would be your third leaf. So your total isolation might be 40-soemthing dB, but it won't be very good for low frequencies, due to the 3-leaf effect.

Quote:
I'm just trying to convince myself wether I should now scrap the idea and go with an additional 2x4 isolated inner framing for the walls spaced an inch from the existing framing and then provide a inner set of double solid doors opening inwards.
That would certainly improve the isolation, and compensate for the third-leaf. That would be a good idea.

Quote:
Then add another ceiling resting on this ,the problem I have is height and due to a central bracing beam I don't believe I can build the new ceiling so it is inside the original.
You could build it "inside-out". That would save a lot of headroom.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Location: Derbyshire UK
Hi Stuart thanks very much for the reply
Progress I like too :D what I don't like any more is acoustic sealant :evil:

You mentioned it seems to be a 3 leaf system I have.
However the construction layers are as follows from outside in
Leaf 1 is as follows:

22 mm oak cladding
25 mm timber latt ( not 50mm) as I stated my mistake ,this is to fix the cladding to. As seen inPicture4
Breathable membrane material
18mm osb 3
100mm stud work filled with rwa45 rockwool

Leaf 2 will be
Rc
2 layers 15 mm plasterboard

This is then 2 leaf is it not?

Sorry for the confusion I didn't explain it very well in my first post

So on this basis will my db isolation levels be attainable?

Many thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:48 am 
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Quote:
Leaf 1 is as follows:

22 mm oak cladding
25 mm timber latt ( not 50mm) as I stated my mistake ,this is to fix the cladding to. As seen inPicture4
Breathable membrane material
18mm osb 3
That is TWO leaves, not just one. The first leaf is the oak cladding. The second leaf is the 18mm OSB. Leaves are defined by the air gap between them. Since there is 25mm of air between the cladding and the OSB, they will both act as leaves. The fact that they are coupled by the studs does not eliminate their effect as leaves.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:56 pm 
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thanks for clearing that up stuart i see what youre saying.

so my options are for the inner walls and ceiling:
rc mounted on existing framework then 2 layers 15mm plasterboard (giving me around a 40+db level of isolation)
or
new inner isolated studwork spaced from existing studwork (giving me a higher level of isolation)

if i went for the first option would it be neccesary to use green glue between the first and second layer of plasterboard or is that over the top?

thanks again


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:18 am 
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Hi peeps
been busy over the last 2 weeks managed to get a couple of days off work before the weekend so spent 3 days solid on the build.
Things are progressing well ,ive gone from sealant hell :twisted: to building backer box hell :roll: for all my led lighting and other outlets.
some times you think your getting nearer and then you turn to look to see how mush is still to be done.
anyway heres a few picture updates for you.
i always welcome any feedback good or bad.
until next time when hopefully my doors will have arrived :yahoo:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Progress! :thu:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:30 pm 
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great looking build you've got there :D

Crushturtle wrote:
if i went for the first option would it be neccesary to use green glue between the first and second layer of plasterboard or is that over the top?


necessary, no. will it help isolation, yes :D It sounds like you're getting toward your 40db isolation with just the RC and double layer of plasterboard. If your budget wll extend to using GG and you think you might need a bit of additional isolation then I'd say use it. (i've used it myself and the product does what it says if used correctly)

Crushturtle wrote:
new inner isolated studwork spaced from existing studwork (giving me a higher level of isolation


It looks like you've already gone down the RC road so if you're thinking you need more serious isolation then this is the time to pull on the handbrake and rethink your build. A completly seperate internal shell will yield much better isolation....if that's what you need :D

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:24 am 
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Location: Derbyshire UK
Thanks Stuart and Steve for your comments

I did deliberate for a good while over the rc versus inner room and for a number of reasons I chose the rc
1 The isolation levels I require being 40-45 db .hopefully this will be achieved without the inner room.
2 the internal footprint would be greatly reduced as I would need an extra set of doors it's not a massive room as it is.
3 i am planning on using the room for a number of other uses,cinema room,chill out space ,party room.
4 I am building this for ME a guitarist not a drummer :mrgreen: , to have a space to write and create new music in ,it will be used for jam sessions with other musicians but not for a full band to use as a rehearsal room.


Regarding the green glue between the layers of plasterboard it sounds like the way to go.
I've Done some research on it and it seems to be especially good for isolating low end frequencies
The extra isolation can only be a good thing !
Looks like I'm gonna need about 2 boxes of 12 to complete the room about £270 worth

Any idea what extra improvement in isolation it would give ?
Anyone know the cheapest place to buy it in the uk ?

Cheers
Craig


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:54 am 
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Quote:
2 the internal footprint would be greatly reduced as I would need an extra set of doors it's not a massive room as it is.
If you want to get 45 dB isolation across the spectrum, you'll need two doors anyway! Or a single extremely heavy, massive, solid door, such as Rod's "Superdoor" that has sheets of lead inside it. If that's the way you plan to go, then you'll need to heavily beef up the framing around the door, to be able to support the huge weight, and you'll need heavy duty hinges as well, plus an automatic door closer: it's not safe to try to close such a door by hand. You can't get 45 dB of isolation from an ordinary house door, not even a solid core one. It needs a LOT more mass than that. You'll also need three complete seals around the door, not just the normal two seals. Take a look at the Zero International catalog for their acoustic door seals, especially the threshold seals.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:48 pm 
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Crushturtle wrote:
Any idea what extra improvement in isolation it would give ?


I'm pretty sure there's some figures on the GG website which I believe are accurate. I did a test once I had my middle leaf ceiling (long story, look up the dog & bear build thread for details) done with 2 layers of 16mm plasterboard and GG and it compared with my single skin brick walls across the spectrum.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:23 pm 
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The exterior door which I have ordered is an aluminium framed glass double glazed french door with the following layers:
Pilkington Optifloat 9.1 lam/ 12mm cavity Argon Gas filled to 90%/6mm Pilkington K Glass S Toughened that gives a sound reduction of 41Rw dB (C;Ctr)

Will I still need some kind of internal door ?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:06 pm 
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In my completely un professional view yes.

Ask yourself this, if you have double glazed windows and doors in your house and you were to set up your guitar and amp inside near your back door or better still near your sliding patio doors if you've got some how much noise in db do you think would be getting outside at the door?

I don't have the figures , maybe a mod does, or maybe set this up and try it for a few minutes with a sound level meter if you can, I can visualise the problems it would have caused with my neighbours :shock:

Can you not get 2 sets of sliding doors and build a return or reveal off your interior walls to accomodate the interior set of doors?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:44 pm 
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Thanks rogue jackal yes the inner doors are a possibility my exterior door is due in the next week or so.
I've put a stop on the interior until this turns up so I can do some tests when it's fitted and decide from there.
I've also had some cordless tools stolen from inside the room last week ,bastards :cop: so I'm taking a bit of thinking time before I go too far with the inside.


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