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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Location: Athens, Greece
It's not the only one I can get, they also sell 3, 4, 5mm, etc and I can choose between chipboard, osb, mdf.

I think the chipboard is less dense.
Maybe 3mm will be better as a core because it's more flexible and will have less mass per m2. What do you think?

Also is it better to design the width of the panels in a way that they interfere with my measured frequency responce?
i.e. the fλ/4 and 3fλ/4 falls right on peak frequencies, and fλ/2 on dips?
Of course keeping a variation on sizes.


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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:37 am 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
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Also is it better to design the width of the panels in a way that they interfere with my measured frequency responce?
i.e. the fλ/4 and 3fλ/4 falls right on peak frequencies, and fλ/2 on dips?
Not really necessary. I just try to make them as large as I can fit in. As the saying goes "size matters"...


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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:05 am 
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Good news, searching for the right chipboard as an alternative, i did found the actual think I need!

It's homasote indeed!

The company selling it renamed it to "insulite", here in Greece, that's why i couldn't find it!

They are out of stock for the 12.5mm, but they got plenty of 10mm sheets, so I will go with that!


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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:10 am 
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Perfect! Glad you found it.

- Stuart -

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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:03 am 
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Posts: 26
Location: Trenton, NJ, USA
almaelectronix wrote:
It's homasote indeed!


I just read this whole most excellent thread and with all of the chatter about Homasote I thought I should clear up a few misconceptions for folks who might be just reading. You see, while I am not here at the forum as such, I am the Technical Director at Homasote Company. 8)

Homasote is a very unique substrate that is unlike any fiber board anywhere. The recipe for Homasote was brought over to the US from the UK in 1909 and it is proprietary. It is made from compressed recycled paper rather than from wood fibers with an adhesive binder. It has no adhesive and is held together, instead, by the surface tension between the mechanically interlocked fibers. There is even some good old hydrogen bonding going on as well. Because of this the substrate is much stronger that those typical wood fifer based fiber boards.

John is right about the fact that it is a great tack board, but it's real use these days in in floor/ceiling and wall assemblies as a sound control component. For purposes of this discussion here are some pertinent data points:

if you are going to use Homasote is this fashion you don't want PINnacle. PINnacle is a decoratively sanded version of the basic Homasote substrate that is used as a tack board. You want the basic board that is called 440 SoundBarrier. Unfortunately, it won't be readily available outside of the US (except in Canada).

Density: 440 Kg/m3 (nominal). That's just under the official range for MDF.

NRC: 0.10 ASTM C-423 (Reverberation Room) SA is 0.55 @ 125Hz but it drops off precipitously after that.
0.20 ASTM C-384 (Impedance Tube)

This may be the only time I speak about the product here on the forum as that is not why I am here. When I step away from the Homasote Tech Desk I am just a self recording songwriter who is always trying to get my room sounding better....just like lots of you who may be reading this. :)

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:38 am 
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Posts: 150
Location: Wales, UK
SGleason wrote:
almaelectronix wrote:
It's homasote indeed!


I just read this whole most excellent thread and with all of the chatter about Homasote I thought I should clear up a few misconceptions for folks who might be just reading. You see, while I am not here at the forum as such, I am the Technical Director at Homasote Company. 8)

Homasote is a very unique substrate that is unlike any fiber board anywhere. The recipe for Homasote was brought over to the US from the UK in 1909 and it is proprietary. It is made from compressed recycled paper rather than from wood fibers with an adhesive binder. It has no adhesive and is held together, instead, by the surface tension between the mechanically interlocked fibers. There is even some good old hydrogen bonding going on as well. Because of this the substrate is much stronger that those typical wood fifer based fiber boards.

John is right about the fact that it is a great tack board, but it's real use these days in in floor/ceiling and wall assemblies as a sound control component. For purposes of this discussion here are some pertinent data points:

if you are going to use Homasote is this fashion you don't want PINnacle. PINnacle is a decoratively sanded version of the basic Homasote substrate that is used as a tack board. You want the basic board that is called 440 SoundBarrier. Unfortunately, it won't be readily available outside of the US (except in Canada).

Density: 440 Kg/m3 (nominal). That's just under the official range for MDF.

NRC: 0.10 ASTM C-423 (Reverberation Room) SA is 0.55 @ 125Hz but it drops off precipitously after that.
0.20 ASTM C-384 (Impedance Tube)

This may be the only time I speak about the product here on the forum as that is not why I am here. When I step away from the Homasote Tech Desk I am just a self recording songwriter who is always trying to get my room sounding better....just like lots of you who may be reading this. :)

Steve


Thanks for the info and data, nice of you to share it with us. However, I think it sucks that it’s not available outside of the US and Canada - at least make it available in the UK (where I’m from) seems only right considering that’s where it’s from originally!

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:19 am 
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Location: Trenton, NJ, USA
Hey Paul....

There is actually a company in the UK that may be the great grandfather of Homasote. Their products appear to be a bit watered down now...all kinds of poofy colored tackboards...but they are made the same way as Homasote.

https://www.sundeala.co.uk/

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:19 am 
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Location: Santiago, Chile
Quote:
I think it sucks that it’s not available outside of the US and Canada
I have to agree with that! :thu:
Quote:
at least make it available in the UK
... and maybe Latin America, too! Or at least Chile....

We can get cork, thick cardboard, and other types of fiber board, but they aren't the same....

- Stuart -

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 Post subject: Re: Acoustic hangers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Posts: 26
Location: Trenton, NJ, USA
I wish it was that easy. Unfortunately, Homasote Company doesn't sell directly into the market. The product goes through distribution to local dealers. Product does get shipped overseas from the US all the time for large projects in the Mid-East, Korea, Japan...lots of places. They buy it for specific projects that require sound control or tackable acoustic panels.

Soundman2020 wrote:
Quote:
We can get cork, thick cardboard, and other types of fiber board, but they aren't the same....


I'm glad that John likes Homasote for these hangers but I'm thinking that the unique attributes of Homasote are not really that big a deal in this application. That .55 SA at 125 Hz may be helping things but other than that I think any substrate that is lighter than plywood or OSB might perform as well. In fact, any of the wood based fiber boards would likely perform as well in this application as they have similar or slightly higher absorption coefficients.

Products like:

https://www.blueridgefiberboard.com/sou ... deadening/
or
https://bpcan.com/produits/soundproofing-panels/

I would never recommend these products for sound attenuation assemblies as they can't hold a screw like Homasote.......with Homasote you can decouple the GWB. But these substrates are softer than Homasote so they have higher absorption numbers. They would probably be beefy enough to handle this job and there are lots of other similar products all over the world (I think). I'll spend some time today researching that.

I wonder if Micore (USG) might work. Micore 300 is a true mineral fiberboard that is also a bit softer than Homasote and has a slightly higher NRC.

https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/en/p ... board.html

Steve


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