John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Post #1 December 21, 2005

Mark Skipper: Skipper Sound

Hampton Roads, Virginia USA

Budget: less than $15,000.00 US

Goal: Relocate existing studio beginning in Feb 2006 to expand present 1 room studio and VO Office to also include Studio B and Lobby. Former 1000 sq to new 1500 sq; 500 square feet gained.

Process: Must be out of current studio by March 1, 2006. Gaining access to new building Feb 1, 2006. Hoping to do rough construction and frame out facilities, with enough to setup shop in studio B side, have restroom and lobby by March 2006.
Once moved in and out of old facility (double rent is a man-eater), then we will spend time finishing A Studio - then transitioning to A and then Finalizing B, while maintaining active clients.

Goal: Decide on most advantageous layout, then plan control room and studio specific designs, with emphasis on control room low end accuracy, but - obviously -not perfection at this budget.

Overall Building Dimensions: Warehouse 59’ x 37’ - Double Width Brick Walls, Concrete Slab Floor, Wooden Supports running the center points of the length and width creating a cross holding up the roof. Asphalt/Wooden Roof with large wooden Trusses- truss bottom 12“ all over building, Ceiling Height 16'2" at North Side (entrance) and 18' at South Wall.

North Side Entrance Door: Currently a standard Exterior Door and a Garage Roll Up on the North Side. Doors not sealed very well.

This north side also houses the interior 100 amp Panel at the interior wall midpoint.

HVAC: 3 ton Condenser will be installed rooftop on adjacent building, 4 ton Air handler with VAriable speed fan and Fire Blockers in adjacent warehouse separated by my 8” block wall.

West Side of Building (50’ run) adjacent to low traffic feeder street. I have gotten permission from Landlord to construct an interior wall of 8” block which I planned to space a few inches from existing exterior wall and blow in insulation if it’s worth it-to beef up the STC. I think cutting the interior foundation in such a way to not compromise the wall strength is an interesting option to keep the low end decent in Studio A. Researching concrete depth and foundation materials now.
That all depends on how effective the existing wall is.

North Side Entrance is street side as well. No sound requirements there either way - Lobby and office on North wall are not sound critical. Almost no traffic on that street. North wall faces back of Motel 8 rear parking lot and hotel. Nice lot, good lighting and security, so entering in the front door has good light and security across the street.

East Side (50’) run is an 8” block wall that separates me from a custom bike shop. One guy, works occasionally. He could care less about sounds from us. I am discussing more about his schedule and when I could measure the noise from him. He’s a quiet guy, but those bikes could certainly make a racket. We shall see...

South side (30’) is an 8” block wall that neighbors my trio of landlords whom have no concern for sound from us at all…one of the gents collects luxury cars in the warehouse on the other side of the South wall - they are DEAD QUIET. On the other side of this wall near the top of the ceiling is where the owners will install my new air handler.

Plans:
Lobby/Reception: Open layout for reception desk area, conference /Lounge Area

Restroom: Fixed location at south side rear of building, reflected in drawing layout.

Office/VO Studio: 6x8 room for DAW VO Office.

Studio A : Studio- accomidate Classical Ensembles of 12, Drums, Vocals, Nice Short Reverb, Light Presence-“Not too Dead, Not Live.”

Control A: Neotek 36 Console, Future 5.1 Mix layout compatible, DAW, Outboard, 2” 24 track Studer.

Studio B: Studio- Singer/Songwriter Demos, Voice Over, Overdubs Guitar Amplifier Overdubs- “Tight, Little Ambience”

Control B: DDA AMR24 Console, DAW, Studer 24 track, Outboard, Keyboards, etc.

* B Iso Booth, Vocal, Amps

Furniture: 1 leather sofa, 5 wing chairs and 3 endtables, Kurzweil Keyboard ( For Studio B)

Oh and I am learning SketchUp, so bear with me.

Welcome to the forum, Mark! Interesting canvas you have from which to work.

I'm by no means an expert on this, but you may have some difficulty working in a construction zone with your double-rent mitigation plan. I'm not trying to talk you out of it, of course... Just prepare for a good dose of frustration and you'll also want to expect your time frames to be extended -- things always take longer than we'd like to think.

One thing that popped out at me that you'll want to be sure to plan around is the fact that your air handler will apparently be located in your "has to be dead calm" neighbor's attic -- did I get that right? If so, you may need to fashion some kind of duct silencer so that it doesn't become the source of noise complaints in the antique car place. (In case that's not clear, I'm talking about noise generated in your studio leaking out the air handler -- not the noise of the air handler motor.)

I'm not clear on what the colored boxes represent. Are these rooms in the existing space or something? Also, the black boxes shapes within those boxes -- not sure what those are either.

I see a toilet, but I see no door and no sink.

Anyway, this will be interesting to see take shape!

One thing you may want to consider -- building timber frame walls with multiple layers of drywall on them is probably easier than doing the block wall thing. You'd have to fill the block walls with sand or concrete in order to make them isolate well.

Don't forget fresh air ventilation. You're going to need it.

Your project reminds of me len-morgan's in a number of ways. Granted, his building is standalone, so his isolation requirements to the outside world are less demanding than yours... But still, you should read his entire thread to see how his is coming along.

That's all for now! Welcome to the family -- when's dinner?

--Keith

Post #2 December 22, 2005

Keith,

Thanks for your interest-I’m a big fan of this community and the sonic love you guys are sharing. Family: I’ll be the little booger-picking stepson, ok? I’m hoping not to “screw the pooch” by moving my studio from a good location to hopefully a better one (for expansion). The timetable and budget are a limitation, but hopefully one we can adapt too and make the most of.

A few clarifications of potential misunderstanding:

0. I’m no acoustician or know-it-all. I have been involved in a few studio mods/ build outs-so I’m dangerous enough to mess it all up. I just downloaded Sketchup yesterday.

1. The Antique Car Garage (mostly storage-not a showroom) on my South Side (the restroom side) doesn’t care about sounds at all, one way or another. I could detonate bombs for all they (and the rest of my other neighbors) care. Thanks for pointing out that my noise might travel their way via my HVAC-hmmmm.. I was hoping to integrate an HVAC baffle to impede noise transmission-mostly to protect our space; I would be interested in a DIY plan - but I think its just a add on box with 2“ fiber lining and a maze of interior walls…

2. I need to run the numbers and figure out what the upside and downside to the West Wall interior block wall vs. timber and gypsum. $ vs. STC vs. time. My thought was to put the simplest-noise blocking wall in place-without getting into a bunch of wall voodoo.

3. You see a naked restroom because I SUCK AT SKETCHUP! Any help/input/design ideas anyone can give is much coveted. I’m looking forward to getting a 3D Control Rooms/Studios with window and door details…how do you guys get the little ADAM Monitor components and complex control room details, etc. I have my Sketchup 2D layout files for anyone who wants to throw in their 2c to layout…I love community interaction.

4. Can fresh air be addressed by HVAC without upping the noise equations significantly?

I’m on the way to Les Morgan’s thread. Jump on in and contribute guys! I really value your input!

_________________
Only crazy people build their own studios.

For your convenience.

_________________
Only crazy people build their own studios.

Just to clarify- this 1500 sqare foot warehouse is a big open space currently- with the exception of the walled restroom.

My layout plans take advantage of the existing truss system in the overhead that lines the middle of the building on the X & Y intersects- forming a cross from the overhead POV.

My layout plans have a hall running the 50' run which seperates the two studios, taking atvantage of those truss layouts.

_________________
Only crazy people build their own studios.

I almost asked you for a "higher elevation" view of the neighborhood, so you read my mind!

OK, that clears things up a bit.

Find out what the noise ordinances are for your area and be sure you're in compliance with them -- even if there's nobody around to complain. The reason I feel this is important is because your neighbors can change, and then all of a sudden it may become an issue.

For sure you'll want to divorce yourself from the 90 degree angles. Take a look at some of John's designs -- you'll see how few if any interior walls are on the true X or Y axis, for good reason. The ceiling inside your rooms will probably be attached to the top plates of your new walls, so I don't think there's any value or need to follow the overhead truss locations in your new space.

I've talked about ventilation a lot here -- you'll want to do some searches on the subject. I've covered the applicable building code -- you don't have windows in those rooms, so you need to make up for that with on-demand mechanical ventilation that cycles all of the air inside the room every X number of minutes, X being a number that varies from place to place. Even if you can get your air conditioner to supply some fresh air, it may not be enough to be a "window replacement" per se.

By the way, STC figures are pretty meaningless for what you'll be doing. If you're going to be recording drums, the low lows and high highs are way outside of the STC range, so don't fall into the STC trap.

Gotta' go -- late for work!

--Keith

Who has suggestions for what room ratios and shapes would work for the Control Room A and Control Room B Areas?

I have been working Ethan's room mode cal, but havent come up with anything definitive yet.

Ceiling Height is flexible.

I will research the 'hood SPL regulations.

_________________
Only crazy people build their own studios.

On the subject of regulations, you'll definitely not want to miss my "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread.

Outside Environment SPL Measurements Thursday Afternoon 4:45 pm A Weighted peak @5 minutes 58.7 db
C Weighted peak @ 3 minutes 81.6 db

Noise Ordinance (City Magistrate's Office had it)
My city regulations requires us to be this quiet:
7am - 10 pm = 67 db A
10pm - 7 am = 62 db A

_________________
Only crazy people build their own studios.

Based on my current experience, I'd try for as much ceiling height as you can get. In retrospect, I kind of wish I'd put off my project for a few months and then ripped the current roof off of the building and put up a pitched roof so I could gain about 4' of ceiling height.

You can always lower the "apparent" height with a drop down ceiling if you want to but I haven't been able to find a "drop UP" ceiling. You might also want to consider not making your ceilings flat (i.e., parallel to the floor). It's more work at the construction phase (you have to angle the cuts on the drywall) but you'll avoid (or at least reduce) the need for hanging something to reduce floor to ceiling bounce.

len (Not "Les")

Hi guys,

I am learning that I could use a lot more money to be able to finish this puppy. So this studio will be a lesson in compromises for me. But if I was in a perfect world, a lot of things would be different.

Upon taking possesion of the property, I was faced with several suprises, both courtesy of the former tenant.

1. He is a carpenter and left about 4" average of sawdust on the floor and EVERYWHERE ELSE. Cleaning that mess up sucked and left me sick for two weeks.
2. Underneath this carpet of sawdust laid an uneven slab. Joy. About 70% of the concrete slab is acceptable, but there are a few spots that will need some leveling treatment.

The good news is that I have several friendly contracters some of which are bartering time with me, so Lord willing, we'll be turning knobs and putting smiles on paying client's faces soon.

Mark

Buildout path:

My plans before my talk with my accountant:

Insulate the underside Wood joist/asphalt roof with R-19...

Framing: 2 x 4 Steel Studs staggered on 2 x 6 Steel Track...walls to the interior ceiling.

Ceiling: Acoustic Tile Grid with unfaced R-19 on top of Acoustic Tile.

HOWEVER:

My plans have changed after my recent talk with my Accountant and my General Contractor:

More on that later:

Job 1: Insulate the underside of the roof, after roof repairs are completed. (DONE- 02-16-2006) See pixs.

My Building permit has been pulled and approved! Whoopeee....

I have been informed however, that my plans with my neighborhood electrican, whom is experienced with studio electrical needs AND is prepared to barter with us- are now KAPUT, mostly because the city requires a MASTER Electrician to pull the commercial electrical permit and oversee the job. In other words, hire the master electrician - period. No Barter. pphhhhttt. Budget takes another 2k hit.

Good news is that my GC, Rob, has found a well recommended Master Electrician named Roger, who is an experienced Audio guy, as well, and he has given us an acceptable price. He is pulling the permit now and has streamlined our plans, by consolidating the Overhead rough in and Floor rough in to one lovely inspection. (That was not the case 48 hours ago when we were needing to go thru two inspections at seperate times.

So now we need to plow right into our ceiling/framing/HVAC Ducting stage so he can get on electrical wiring and replacing our panel.

NEW CEILING PLANS:

Based on the recommendation of my General Contractor and the insistance of my accountant, we are not going to be framing our walls up to the roof (16 - 18' high).

We will be Hanging a 12' suspended ceiling product by Celotex ( http://www.bpb-na.com/us/english/ceilin ... rygrid.php ) which CAN support up to 2 layers of 5/8" Gypsum 4' x 12'. Sheetrock sheets are screwed into the track from the underside.

Under this Suspended Ceiling Grid, we will be framing 12' high walls in steel studs.

Bad News - we can't afford to stagger the studs or go to the roof with our walls.

We are going with -AHEM- 2 x 4 Steel with insulation and 1/2" Gypsum walls.

(duck)

See pixs of Celing Grid Install...

I am responsible for the ductwork, and the property owners are installing a 3 ton Amana system on the other side of the south wall.

Notes: The return may change depending on the placement of the supply duct. Where supply and return enter the building and the space for duct work to travel through may change. This is over sized. I am assuming that it will be a 3 ton system. This duct work is a half ton larger. The returns are one ton larger to make sure they stay quiet.

Framing is scheduled for Friday (two days from now) so putting th e ductwork in around the framed walls will be a little pinchy with that huge scaffolding we have there.

Here are the proposals for Ductwork, via John Ludford.

I meant to mention this earlier. After moving in, I did some further testing with the equipment at my disposal, and I have found that the exterior walls are quite good at stopping exterior and interior sounds.

The weakness at this point is the front wall- doors- go figure.

We have plans we will elaborate on soon.

Mark