John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Uh-huh. The unwritten rule of remodeling: The job always takes twice as long and costs twice as much as planned.

You can take that to the bank.

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Relax, life can be fun if you let it.

only twice? cool!

can i hold you to that

I was trying to be positive.

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Relax, life can be fun if you let it.

OK, curiosity got me. I drilled a hole half way up screen wall header, 24 inches from CB wall to not hit a possible stud and...

It's hollow, see below pics.

My above guess diagram is correct.

I've already got 20 or more holes to fill in the patio so why not drill another one



Dang, I've already jumped from $3,000 to $6,000... I can't count any higher without pain medication.

My 1st thought was single 2x4 walls nice and simply just in patio not removing CB wall. That was before I even looked at requirements for sound isolation in December? (When ever we decided to have another child) and now just my design and planning time has increased by 400-500%. But all things considered in 9 months this should be complete.

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As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.

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As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.

Now you have to strip it off 'cause I gotta' know what's inside...

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Relax, life can be fun if you let it.

Well before the frame work of this header will be revealed it'll be 2-4 weeks minimum guess till I get work permit... but the screen wall and the stucco leaf on that header are the 1st things to come down. BTW it really appears to be just stucco w lath and paper, no plywood just like the gable triangle wall of my attic.

Marc

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As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.

I must admit to only skimming this entire thread (time is at a premium these days), but I must say that I'm totally impressed with the drawings and details! And I see that I don't have to give you my infamous permit lecture!

I'm concerned about the floating floor plan though... ...Have you seen the threads on this forum (and others, namely StudioTips) that discuss the "to float or not to float" issue at length? I'm concerned that without proper calculations, you could have room that performs worse than if you don't float at all...

Steve, I may have gotten the "drawings of the year" award in early 2005, but I think this guy deserves "drawings of the year" for early 2006. If there's a ceremony, I'll be pleased to present... As long as it's not in Vallejo.

And I certainly can't be accused of padding my post count these days, can I? Hmmmmm?!

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Drawings of the year - agreed (now, where's my sword for the ceremony ) - maybe more fitting to use a taping knife...

And I can accuse you of padding if I want, 'cause this is MY court my rules

Also,( "don't call me Sharwood." (It's Sharward!")

Kinda like "SHERWOOD" meself...

Don't happen to have a pair of tights and a feathered green cap, do ya?

OK, that was just mean; guess diddling around with water heaters wasn't what I wanted to do with my time off - looks like it twisted my (already twisted) sense of humor, just consider the source Steve

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Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...

Yes, I've seen to "float or not to float" and am concerned about it.

My 2nd biggest reason to float is that I already own enough 3/4" plywood for the floor. 12 sheets @ $40 per sheet, $500 worth, slightly cut up from using as hurricane shutters. Rushing to buy plywood in 2004 Hurricane season I did not want to stand in line all day at HD or Lowe’s. I “lucked out” that day finding the 3/4 “ plywood, spent way to much money on plywood to good for shutters but… I got 10 out of 10 appeasing my wife for protecting the house we owned for less then a year.

Plan is to replace my hurricane plywood with ¼”, $10 sheets or other hurricane shutter material, and put the more expensive stuff to good use on another build project. Note: I do not have enough plywood not slightly cut up plywood for exterior sheathing because it will not meet code.

Biggest reason to float is to improve STC and LF TL and yup I am at odds with it. I’m waiting to post that question till I get closer to confirming my inner outer wall Mass Air Mass placement, then try to figure it out myself, and if I’m still confused then I post the question… but since we’re talking about it…

Wall plan has changed from previous design and is basically:
Mass= 2 layers drywall,
Air= 8” with a variety of R19, R13 and 2” Roxul,
Mass= 2 layers of drywall with variation or additional material.

Exception on one wall is Air= 4”, with 2” roxul, but outer leaf is concrete block filled with sand, STC 53 by itself.

STC goal: 65 to 70
LF TL @ 50Hz goal: 27 to 30.

That being said, current confusion is the scenario of which will add or decrease sound isolation, cost & time effectively:

1. No float, just ¾” ply then hardwood floor. Inner walls floated.
2. Float on ½” rubber, 2x4’s on side, roxul 2” insulation. Mass = 4” concrete slab, Air = 2” with roxul, Mass = 2 layers ¾ ply plus hardwood.
3. Same as 2 but turn 2x4’s normal.
4. I really don’t want to turn 2x4’s normal so I don’t want to think about 2x6’s, I want to maintain some height in the room for modes.



Dang, thanks Sharward. I really tried to mimic the detail you put into your drawings on your thread, you inspired my anal detailing. In fact I am currently using a butchered copy of your Estimate Spread sheet for my own estimate. For my 2nd set of wall design pics I’m going to try and decrease the size of font and picture so that is doesn’t take Steve 22 Page Down hits to make it through the post.

Only detail point I’m missing is how to create squiggly or diagonal lines with in a colored area, using SketchUp.

And I’m still just as confused with ceiling Mass Air Mass placement as the floating the floor. I do know I can’t get away with not creating a Mass Air Mass Ceiling.

Notes:
-Main isolation wall is to family room. Family room and entire house sits 5” higher on concrete slab than patio and garage. Entire house sits on Sand… Florida is one big pile of sand.
-Thanks to Sharward and Steve on Sharward’s thread for pointing out over stuffed R19 is almost = to 2” roxul, which inspired turning a few walls from inside out to normal... lost a few inches hear, gained a few inches there and most important saved some money.
-Small celebration of saving money was squashed realizing the extent of what I’m going to spend relocating & upgrading my panel box plus adding a main breaker by my meter.
-Steve, I got a list of dead links & links found for you, will PM it to you when I'm done.

Marc

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As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.

New questions to think about:

Can drawing of the year and putz of the year acknowledgement be given to the same person on the same day?


Marc

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As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.

Tried post this in Words of Wisdom, or "How NOT to do it" but was having trouble with the pics and the picture is the best part.

The following is a continuation of previous babbling about hating my attic crawl space.

40 year 0ld, ½” drywall can not take the weight of 180 pound man.

Let me start from my wife’s perspective, sitting in the next room. She knows I am in the attic above garage and hears a bang, boom and a clump. She comes into garage to find me looking down upon garage from attic spread eagle between trusses as I’ve busted a new hole in garage ceiling. She could see me from head to knees, my arms and feet are the only thing holding me up. I’m fine, laughing and she moves the ladder to me to crawl down.


What happened My task was to fish the control wire for my sprinkler system through an existing tube of wires for my Air Conditioner compressor on the side of house. Sprinkler system was in the way of studio, I relocated, rebuilt it and this was the final part of the move. Once wire is moved I can redo some landscaping and the entry walkway to my studio/patio.

I crawled into limited access space which is even worse then my main attic. I took with me 2 pieces of plywood, to balance my weight on plywood, on truss, instead of ½” drywall. Drywall is directly attached to truss. I scooted/hurdled my way between a truss and kept moving towards the wire "fishing" location. By scooting I mean worming my way moving 4 to 5 inches at a time, trying to reposition and stay on the plywood. I got to the location and completely crammed my head into the lowest portion of roof, maybe 8” to 10” space. Made a reach for the cable to fish into a pre drilled hole and boom… I got the job done… but…

I now had some of my weight on one piece of plywood not two. I had to loose a peice of plywood on account of truss bridging members and being at a real low point of clearence. Scooting backward was not as easy as going in. I got in a really awkward spot and had to shift the plywood out from under my weight to get my feet over an obstacle (support for garage door motor) with enough room for the worming scoots. I scooted some more and with my arms spread on truss (24” centers) feet on the obstacle, the drywall under my belly dropped to the floor

Luckily I was precautious enough to be keeping part of my weight on something other then the drywall. The drywall fell on the location in garage where I normally store my PA gear, but I had moved it all to get ladder to ceiling and pre drill the hole. A couple guitar cases and various other things got covered in drywall dust.

And most lucky the drywall did not let go at a point where I had no choice in worming but to put all my weight on drywall.

Got my 1st studio build battle wound under my arm... a good scab.

The hole about 2' by 4'. Pain in the but to fix, but considering all the drywall I've signed my self up to hang.... hmm I still wish I had not busted this hole.


Marc

EDIT, I re-posted above in Safety During Demolition, Construction

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As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.

Let me be the first to offer my condolences! I know some are likely to laugh (and it's good that you were amused), but I'm sure in retrospect it's pretty upsetting. You're very lucky on many counts.

Your story is the reason I have "atticphobia."

Actually, your story would make a fine addition to the "Safety During Demolition, Construction" thread, so I hope you'll include it there, or at least a contextual link to this page of your thread.

I know, I'm always so seeeerious...

Again, I'm really glad you're not hurt (too badly), Marc!

Thanks for sharing your story.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Keith, yes I am lucky on many accounts. I've been counting how many ways I could have fallen on to concrete floor and obstacles below. If I hadn’t taken precaution I could have had some serious injuries.

When going into attic I knew it was possible the drywall could give way, this attic space does not look as inviting as my main attic. In fact every time I placed any weight on drywall I thought about it, especially when I choose to loose my plywood support in order to accomplish task and then lost 2nd piece of plywood cause I was basically stuck in a hard spot. Being aware of the possible danger is what saved my A$$. This was the 1st time I made a crawl through this attic space. My main attic I already hate (previous post babble) and have come up with a plan to make the necessary trips up there safer. I’m going to cut a new access door close to work area above studio and install scraps of plywood to keep my body weight on.



Yes I’ll add it to safety during construction.

And thank for pointing me to “to float or not to float”. It’s been on my “to read” list and decided to look it over tonight. That thread over on studio tips, goes above and beyond helping me with current wall issues, MAM and float a floor issue. Statement that started to make it click for me was:

By Paul Woodlock: in AT's Studio in the Garage



BTW I’m still not done relocating the controller for sprinkler. The wire placement is permanent outside, but I’m waiting for studio walls to go up to choose final placement of controller inside, so the nice new access hole will remain till outer studio walls are built.

Marc

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As of Jun 2011, have not finished studio. But working as The One Man Band Marc Dobson which hopefully will continue up my career to a point where I can afford to finish my build.

Aloha Marc,

Glad to hear that you escaped without serious injury. Having fallen off the ladder in my garage a while ago onto a very hard concrete floor knocked the wind out of me. All I could think of was; "Help, I've fallen and can't get up!" When my wife came out to check on me and asked if I was alright, all I could was say:"Ouch!" before busting out laughing.


Wise decision! Be safe, Dad!

Aloha