John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

I'm telling you... NAIL GUN.

But... But... I'm afraid!

Seriously -- maybe I will rent one when I do my inner leaf framing.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Wow... Look at that -- over 80,000 views!

Well I framed another wall today -- it went smoother than the last one because it was a few feet shorter, so it was a lot easier to lift and nudge into position. I'm just about done with my break, so I'll go back out there and tear down a little more ceiling drywall make some progress towards finishing the outer leaf framing altogether. I'm out of studs, though, so another trip to Home Depot to load up the Saturn is in order! (Fortunately, the 10 footers won't be nearly as crazy as those 16 footers I hauled last time! )

I'll post pictures tonight.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

I decided to stop framing when I ran out of lumber.

Things are moving along nicely.



Here are some close-up shots of the double top plate around the sound lock, where the outer leaf door will be.







I decided to use 2x6s along the "door wall" for a couple of reasons. The main reason is that I was able to avoid the displeasure of installing blocking between the trusses for that section because the 2x6 overlaps the truss, so I was able to fasten it directly to the truss without any "middlemen." Then I got to thinking -- that's going to be a very heavy door, so it couldn't hurt to frame everything around it with 2x6s so that it's more stable.

I'm pleased to report that my miter saw cuts 2x6s in one pass! I was led to believe I'd probably have to flip the board over and make a second pass to complete the cut, but that's not the case.

I've got a shopping list for Home Depot -- I'm figuring 12 more pieces of lumber to finish the outer leaf framing. Poor Saturn! (Don't worry -- I'll get my hands on a real truck for the inner leaf framing lumber!)

I have decided that I kind of doing the framing work. It's kind of slow because of the predrilling and my general weakness and inexperience with the framing hammer -- but I'm getting better at it. Also, there's a sense of instant gratification because you can almost instantly appreciate the pieces of the puzzle coming together. This is in sharp contrast to preparing for the slab -- "Look, ma -- a bigger hole in the ground today!" ...or "Look, ma -- I moved the big pile o' rocks into the big hole I dug!" There's just something more real about framing.

But, man, I'm beat. I ache in numerous places and I can't wait to lie down!

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Keith, awesome pictures man. Everything looks really good. I'm sure you've answered this question already but I was too lazy to scroll back through your encylopedia of a thread to look for the answer Anyway, just wondering if you're gonna leave that existing layer of drywall on your ceiling and just add the extra outer leaf layers over top of it or were you planning on removing it and the hat channel all together and re-drywalling your outer leaf?

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"With God, all things are possible."

Let me catch you (and others) up on that.

My original plan was to rip all the drywall off the ceiling, install new 2x6 joists parallel to the trusses, and then attach multiple layers of drywall to the new joists. I had actually planned on notching the new joists so that they sit a little below the trusses -- that would have taken all the weight off the bottom chord of the trusses and would have eliminated contact with them altogether so that I wouldn't have to worry about the possibility of vibration transferring to the trusses.

After learning more about Green Glue, I decided (with help) that I would instead leave the existing 5/8" drywall in place, then add a second layer of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue sandwiched in between.



Here is the thread on Studiotips where I posed that change and it was well received.

Obviously, the holes I created would be patched with the same thickness of drywall that I removed before adding the extra layer.

However, I have since become a little nervous about hanging a second layer of drywall on that channel. I do have a small piece of it, so I should be able to get it measured to see what its guage is... ...Maybe it's fine, but there's something that makes me nervous about it. According to my math, each drywall screw driven into the channel holds about 1 1/2 pounds of dead weight. However, each screw driven through the channel into the truss holds about 5 pounds of dead weight. Adding another layer of drywall adds another 5 pounds, so that's 10 pounds per screw into the trusses. These screws only have 1" of penetration too. Maybe it's fine, maybe it's not. Whereas initially I was worried about the channel, I'm now worried about the screws holding the channel up.

One of the things I plan to do regardless is also drive screws through each layer of drywall directly into the trusses. This would take some weight off the steel channel.

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it... Which will be pretty soon! I plan on doing some detailed "original plan vs. proposed plan" (even more detailed than the image above) to present to the city, as I can't deviate from the plan they approved without their, uh, approval.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Yeah, when Slacker-boy up the hill gets done with that drywall lifter...

Hey man -- I've seen what "Slacker Boy" has accomplished in a mere two months. I want some of those Slacker Pills you're takin'!

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Keith,

If you screw through the channel into the bottom chord of the truss - the channel won't have any load at all - and the effect is not cumulative - in other words - when you are done screwing a sheet up - the next layer of drywall is the only weight it's screws have to carry....... but you want more than 1" of penetration - I would consider 1 3/8" absolute minimum - and 1 1/2 to 1 5/8" preferable.

Rod

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Ignore the man behind the curtain........

Thanks for watching over my shoulder, Rod -- it's great to know you're following.

I'm feeling a lot better about this now. I think.

So, let me see if I got this straight (and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong )...

You're saying that if I add a bunch of screws to the existing drywall layer, bypassing the channel altogether and going straight into the bottom chords of the trusses, that would dramatically reduce or completely eliminate the load on the channel -- so that I no longer need to be worried about the screws holding the channel up. Those screws would need to be 2 1/2" long to penetrate the 5/8" drywall, the 1/2" inch or so of gap height of the channel), and 1 3/8" of penetration into the truss. (Or should I use 3" screws to penetrate 1 7/8"?)

Then the second layer (with Green Glue in between) would be attached in much the same fashion, using even longer screws -- probably 3 1/2" screws to penetrate 1 3/4".

Rod, I'm assuming deeper penetration is better than not enough (easy, fellas... ) -- I just need to make sure that I'm not doing "too much of a good thing" (i.e., aspirin is good but too much can kill you)...

Bear in mind too that the trusses are 6 years old... Not exactly "old growth," but it's definitely a lot harder than the new stuff I bought... so perhaps that may be a factor in a tie-breaking match.

Thanks again, Rod!

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

BTW, you're gonna need some muscle and GOOD SCREW GUN to get that much penetration into the joists. Probably one with a cord will do, but if you want a really good cordless:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009 ... e&n=228013

I think this is then new version of the one that Jeff has, and it's amazing. It'll easily go a whole day screwing 3 inch screws up into the ceiling without running out the battery, and it has great power... didn't flinch at driving them up through 3 layers of 5/8" and into 30 year old joists. Of course, my arm was flinching after a few hours of it.

I just discovered this exemption to my local noise ordinance:

8.68.080(E) Noise sources due to the erection (including excavation), demolition, alteration or repair of any building or structure between the hours of seven a.m. and six p.m., on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, and between nine a.m. and six p.m. on Sunday . . . (Source)

This means that, aside from trying to be courteous, I have to be really careful about the construction noise I generate before 6 p.m.

I was banging nails until close to 8 p.m. on Sunday...

This doesn't mean that I have to stop all construction activities at 6 p.m., but it does mean that I can't exceed the objective or subjective noise standards during those hours. In other words, using a screw gun after 6 p.m. is probably OK, but using the miter saw or banging on nails after 6 p.m. is probably illegal, not to mention a bit obnoxious to the neighbors who I'm ironically trying to help with the construction of this thing in the long run.

So much for my hope to make some framing progress after work tonight... I picked up some lumber yesterday evening and I'm chompin' at the bit to finish the outer leaf!

I haven't had any complaints, or even requests, to be quieter with the construction, and I'd like to keep it that way.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Last night I penciled onto the floor the doorway openings. I'm leaving 39" for my 36" door, including the door frame. That doesn't include the king studs and trimmer studs that will be on either side of the 39" doorway.

I was hoping that the doors would be precisely "even" -- i.e., the openings are exactly "one right in front of the other." Ends up that I can't avoid them being about 1/2" off. With shimming I might be able to mitigate that though.

On my lunch hour today I bought a 1/2" x 5 1/2" galvanized concrete wedge bolt...



...and a 1/2" masonry drill bit. I'll be (hopefully) drilling the hole for that tonight. This is to secure the soleplate next to the outer leaf door.

Drilling in concrete... Should be fun...

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

We used a roto-hammer to drill those holes in my 30 year old concrete... like butta.

Hey Sharward, maybe that's why my table saw disappeared...
I've been using my tools up until just before 10pm. Most cities have a noise ordinance until 10pm.

Hmmm...