John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Looking great, Andy!


I want band names, Sir.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Sorry I didn't get back sooner - a few things that bother me:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/wind ... raming.htm

This is the way to frame a window (or door, without the lower sill and jack studs) - notice the header across the top, the trimmers which SUPPORT the header, etc? The criteria is this - if only GRAVITY were acting on the frame, it would NOT fall down.

Also, I'm amazed that your framing passed with no headers over doors or windows - I didn't know you could get away with that in ANY case.

The proper way to build a header is either to get a 4x beam that's a "nominal" inch per foot of span, or build a laminate consisting of two 2x boards ON EDGE with 1/2" plywood sandwiched between them - a 3-0 opening needs at least a 4" header (nominal, as in 2x4's and 1/2 ply) - same with a 4-0 opening. Up to 6-0 opening needs double 2x6's, up to 8-0 opening needs 2x8's, etc. See the views in Fig.1 of the link above.

Your inspector may have thought you would be putting standard INTERIOR grade doors in those openings, but solid core slabs are HEAVY. They make things sag before their time, they can tear standard length screws out, and they will bow single 2x4's just by hanging there on the hinges.

I know it's a PITA at this point, but I would pull your insulation out where necessary and make these changes NOW, before it means a complete mess later.

I covered this some time ago, here

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=30559

But don't think I added it to the reference section - I'll rectify that if necessary. Scroll down about halfway on that page for the solid way to frame for doors - windows also, just add jacks/trimmers/sill.

Again, sorry I didn't catch this earlier... Steve

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Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...

Actually, the very page I linked to is already part of the REFERENCE section, under "Installing a door - anything I should keep in mind?" -

OK, I hereby officially UN-apologise (but I'm still sorry you'll need to back up a bit...) Steve

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Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...

Yes Marc - that is a pre-existing soffit that covers a whole bunch of plumbing, electrical and duct work. It's unfortunate but there is no way around it. I was going to use RSICs in the CR too. However giving the limited ceiling height in 35% of this room (due to this soffit) I decided not to limit it further in this area by adding RSICs. I figured I would use them for the rest of the room but not on the soffit; and hope that the 2 foot air gap caused by the soffit (which I will be stuffing with FG) will improve the isolation somewhat.

To put this into context; the 2x4's are only 6'9 from the ground. Once I add RSIC's, 3 layers of sheetrock and flooring, it'd probably be more like 6'6 - very tight and somewhat risky for taller visiters! This way I can keep it closer to 6'7 which is already bad enough!

Not too itchy today thankfully. I may have gone overboard but it seemed to work. Noish mask, goggles, Baseball cap and an old snowboard jacket zipped all the way up, with the hood on and pulled tight around my face, and the cuffs tight around my gloves. I also found that wearing those disposable vinyl gloves underneath regular cowhide gloves kept it from getting in your hands.

So if you don't mind looking like a big pratt I can highly recommened the added precaution if you want to avoid the itchies!

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That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... still, wear a hard-hat just in case!

hey guys, i saw the post on headers
i have been framing for about 10 years, and i thougth I would respectfully share a differing opinion on header board requirements.
I hold an A class contractors license, and I have never seen a veneered header on a non load bearing or non exterior wall, even when supporting a solid core door.
the most i have seen is a double 2x4 top plate. I went back to my IRC manual to double check myself, and there is absolutely no code pertaining to non load bearing door headers.
there are multiple reasons: the drywall keeps the framing square, same as laying deck boards on deck framing, it makes the whole thing rigid by squaring it up, laying plywood on trusses creates the same effect. it would be impossible for the framing to sag without ripping itself loose from the drywall.
The other reason is that the weight of the door will put pressure on the jack and king studs only 2 ways: down, and away from the hinge side. Down is impossible thanks to the bottom plate and underlying concrete, and away from the hinge side is also made impossible due to even a single 2x4 header. There is simply not enough pressure. just as a small kickstand will keep a 500 lb harly davidson from falling over. The top hinge bears the most pressure, and it is also the closest hinge to the header, which, yet again, eliminates the chances of warping or otherwise sagging. The only way for a solid core door to sag is for the screws to strip the wood, in which case, it would have been improperly installed, regardless of the framing.
The only time a veneared header is crucial is when there is direct down pressure, from an overhead roof or floor.
later, Mark

Hey Mark!

Welcome aboard! Please stick around, as I'm sure it will be nice to have another framing guy around to consult now and then!

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

So there's been lot's of progress since my last post. I finished up all the insulation and FSK paper on the exterior walls, the electrician got finished with the electrical panel (after the power company FINALLY came out and replaced the meter pan - only a 6 WEEK WAIT!). Then last week the carpenter came back out and beefed up the door headers y'all were concerned about, and also built be a Mike closet.

Yesterday drywall began. The contractors (as I expected) had never worked on anything like this before, so I went through my game plan with them and gave them a summary of the main no-no's- asked them to leave me a 1/4" gap in the corners for caulk etc. It was after this I realized how important it is to a) be there and watch them, and b) be very clear and repeat the instructions as many times as are needed.

What I had ended up with was a room where all the joints had a gap, and in the spirit of going above and beyond to please the customer; they had done a MINIMUM 1/4" which in some cases was more like 1/2". Any of you that have ever tried caulking a 1/2" gap will know how much it sucks and just how quick you'll get through a case of the stuff! Having started work at 6am yesterday; I finally got finished caulking at 11pm! Still - 1st layer of rock is up in the Control toom.

So lesson learned. Today they are back and I am working right behind them with the caulking gun rather than waiting until a whole layer is up.

Some pictures below of the last couple weeks progress. Enjoy - and hola if you notice anything that looks bad!

Cheers!

Andy

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That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... still, wear a hard-hat just in case!

couple more...

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That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... still, wear a hard-hat just in case!

Looking good Andy, big change since you started. The progress has to feel good

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I'm doing the best i can

There's nothin' like drywall to make a room start to look like an actual room, eh?

Congratulations, Andy! Way to go, supervising the contractors like that.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Andy,
I feel for you. Had the same problem with my drywallers. My second layer was much nicer than the first. Half the caulk on the second layer

Looking good. We are about the same in progress it looks like to me.
Question what are the romex lines for coming throught the wall ..looks like about ten wires outside you CR..Light switches
Tom

Yeah they're all for the track lighting (everything is surface mount), and there is one switch for a recording light which goes out in the stairwell entrey to the studio.

2nd layer of drywall is now up and caulked in the control room. tomorrow should be the third layer on the ceiling and begining the performance room. The progress does feel good - at last!

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That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... still, wear a hard-hat just in case!

Hindsight tip

Picked up a nice little tip from the drywall contractors over the last couple days that works like a charm (Maybe this was already obvious to you, but not me). After installing the backer rod and caulking the joints; in order to eliminate any hairline cracks, and especially to make the joint seal flush ready for tape or next layer of sheetrock; take a pass at it with a putty knife. It'll give you a really clean and tidy look.

More pics to come later on. We're done with the control room and just hanging the 2nd layer in the performance room.

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That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... still, wear a hard-hat just in case!

DRYWALL DONE!!!

Yep - the 3rd layer is done and here are the pictures to prove it. I actually ran out of the OSI caulk, and my friend brought me a leftover box of Sheetrock brand acoustical caulk which I used on the last layer. OMG what a difference!! This stuff is SO much easier to work with. Has anyone else found this? It's a bit thicker which makes it harder to squeeze from the tube (my forearm muscles took a beating); but once it's out of the tube it stays in place better and is much easier to spread and work with.

Just wanted to pass that on for anyone trying to decide which brand to work with. Wish I'd known this 5 cases ago

Anyhoo. Here are the pics as of now. Skimcoat and sanding are not done in these pics -that should be completed this week while I'm over in the UK for my birthday. Then when I get back it should be time to start painting and putting in doors, windows and floor. yippee!

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That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger... still, wear a hard-hat just in case!

Congratulations, Andy Eade!!

This a great milestone and a great one to achieve before your birthday trip across the pond, too!

Hey, your observations about OSI vs. Sheetrock acoustic sealant is very interesting. I have several leftover Sheetrock tubes given to me by Stick, plus a few OSI tubes as well that I bought for beef-up. I'll definitely have an opportunity to corroborate your observations!

Of course, the REAL important thing is how long the seals last, and we just won't know that...

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006