John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Here is the link to Lou's Studio Build:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9156

I think the hat channel discussion starts on page 9 or so...

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James

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
Napoleon Bonaparte

Yeah, you're right. But aside from the hat-channel, does everything else look good? Will only one layer of rock be REALLY bad? I can always add another layer. Plus, I'm gonna put rock "barriers" in between the joists.

I'll be posting more as I progress... Those damn inspections, they hold ya up!

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- Brad

www.theSecretSystemBand.com

"...over the years, 'the-blues' has raised many children..."

Everything else looks good to me...

As far as layers of sheet rock, it is all about mass baby!!! In Rod's book (page 35) states that "...every doubling of mass increases isolation by an additional 6 dB." That is a lot!!! He does go on to say that this "mass law" applies to non-rigid assemblies, but can be used as an approximation for wall use as well, A general rule of thumb is that 6 dB is twice as loud.

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James

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
Napoleon Bonaparte

i guess too late for this, but i used the rubber mounts to hold my hat channel. works great, and is holding 2 layers 5/8 rock, with green glue, and 2 clouds.

you are in good shape, using hat channel with the resilient mounts is good. its only when you attach the hat channel directly to the studs or joists that you lose a lot of the isolation value.

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Glenn

Glenn wrote:



I can definitely vouch for that!

Brad - forgive me Dude, but I'm a bit confused - all of your pics on page 1 of your thread, show some superb steel work, and a regular hat channel system mounted to wooden battens screwed directly to what appears to be manufactured vertical plywood joists!

Yet on page 2 everything is mounted in rubber clips, also, the doors are different as well as proportional visual dimensions / cross bracing etc.

Are these two pages showing pics of the same build from different perspectitives, or are they showing two different builds?

Please tell me if I've missed something!

Regards,

Lou.

Lou:

It is your old eyes my friend! They are from two different posters! The ones on page 2 are from another forum member showing the original poster how he did it! check the names again!

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James

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
Napoleon Bonaparte

If so that or not old eyes, but overworked.
I'm getting overworked already following Lou's thread. And with all these pictures even my computer needs rest before getting to the end of these individual pages.

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Best regards - Eric Desart
My posts are never meant to sell whatever incl. myself, neither direct, nor indirect.

Sorry Brad - Great job - apart from you know what!

Kind regards,

Lou.

I know... Actually, this is my "first/starter" studio. It's really just an upgrade from me sitting in my basement with extension cords, and pull-chain lighting. My recordings have been coming out real well (considering). I do plan on moving once the market starts moving because my wife and I want property! But this is a great way to get my feet wet. The next time, it'll be done the right way. By the way, what do those clips cost?

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- Brad

www.theSecretSystemBand.com

"...over the years, 'the-blues' has raised many children..."

Brad – Only a suggestion dude, but why not keep all your posts on one thread ie, the ‘Finally started my………………’ it’ll make it much easier for everyone to keep track of what you’re up to, plus, all your questions could be answered at the same time without people needing to switch threads! Face it buddy, everything you’ve asked so far, is build related to the same project right?

By way of an example, I’m currently looking at said thread, but trying to offer some advice re your wall studs on a different thread – get my point dude?

DH wrote:


Steady my friend – less of the old!

Brad – I have another concern about your doors. In the Uk, these are known as colonial six panel pine interior doors. They are readily available from B&Q etc for around £25.00 a pop ‘knotted’, or £80.00 each ‘knot free’.

They look very attractive, especially when covered in a satin varnish, (and someone, probably you, has hung them beautifully), but I can assure you they’ll do absolutely nothing to stop sound passing between rooms! Don’t panic however as my ‘overworked’ eyes (and limbs) have probably missed something again!

As for isomax clips, – in the UK at least, around £4.30 each! I would have needed 216 of them to cover a 40 square meter area!

Re your vertical studs – (I’m now trying to remember what you’ve posted on your other thread, so if my understanding is wrong, it’s your fault! (Just kidding Bro!)

Once my guys are in tomorrow, to start a 20mm concrete render on all walls, I’ll be doing exactly the same thing – I think. That is, attaching vertical timber studs to the new render housing layers of plasterboard/MDF and insulation to make up my outer-leaf walls. So, keep an eye on what’s going on and you’ll see how I did it. Most likely, I’ll use what we call over here ‘Rawl bolts’ mounted side on, into pre-drilled recessed holes, in the timber.

Hope this helps.

Warm regards,

Lou.

Lou -

Yes I was the one who hung the door, thanks! I think the door is going to be some what ok, because the design of my room is like this: If you're looking at the sliding doors into the live room, then to your left of these rooms, is a woodshop that's about 20 feet long. The stairs come down into the shop and are enclosed with a closet. So any sounds that escape the drum room, will need to come around the shop and penetrate the door into the control room. THEN, if they do, then I will refer to the reality that I don't have a big budget, and anything better than what I had is all gravy!

Again, I know the really pro techniques to building a studio. If I had the cash, I'd be doing all the hanging clips, 3 layers of rock, the works. But I have a small budget and not a lot of time. I held out - to "do it right", but my "cash" ship still has not come in

Anyhow, what do you suggest I do for the doors? I bought some nice rubber stripping that I'll be mounting - and even might attach plywood to the front and back to add more mass.

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- Brad

www.theSecretSystemBand.com

"...over the years, 'the-blues' has raised many children..."

Hi Brad – I’ll do my best, mate!

I know you’re on a tight budget but, as you know, the timberwork around the edges of all six of those lovely pine panels is barely ¼” thick! Hanging ply – rubber stripping etc are, of course, all great ideas, however, I would have to question the structural integrity of what you’ve built to constitute a door frame. Rather than get into the ins and outs of proper door assembly, ( ‘cos I know you know that already), would you have enough budget to lose the pine paneled door and surrounding framework, and replace with what is known in the UK as a 1 ½ hour rated solid fire door with solid hardwood frame? More importantly, if you carry on and add the extra mass to either side of what you now have, personally, I don’t think that the current surrounding woodwork would hold up to the constant opening and closing that somehow seems to go with ‘door territory’

If you can find this additional budget, bearing in mind it probably won’t be much more time/expense/effort than cutting ply and fixing etc, you could also (while you’re at it) make certain your door header is structurally sound.

I visited my local IAC last week to pick up stuff, talk air-con and doors. My mate, there, showed me an example of their class ‘C’ acoustic doors – if you like, the ones they use where noise isn’t really that much of an issue, but where the client just wants to make sure he’s getting the ‘best bang for his buck’ (Americanism I've learned from the forum!)

Brad – if those were their class ‘C’s’ – you and I wouldn’t even lift their ‘A’s and that’s why your frame has to be up to the job as well, including hinges, and, as you clearly know, air-tight seals top and bottom.

Your steel work BTW (though I haven’t seen too much anywhere else up here), is amazing! A truly great job my friend.

Hope some of this helps a bit, and good luck with your project Dude,

Warm regards,

Lou.

Yes Lou - I did know all this already. But the heavier fire-rated doors are out of the budget. When money is a factor, something has to suffer or give. Lots of folks think that if you don't have the money or time to do things completely professional, then it's not worth doing. I've got along pretty good sitting downstairs with carpet on my concrete walls and running extension cords. I finally have electricity and nice sheetrocked walls, sliding glass, etc... If sound is going to bleed through somewhere, then so be it. I'm a carpenter by trade so I know how to build the right way. I've read Rod's book and been a member of the forum for years. I've learned a lot about the specialized techniques for studios. But again, money money money. I even read through your thread and was very impressed!

Sorry for the rant (vent) - I guess I'm a little frustrated that I don't have a bigger budget (only around $2K). So with rock, paying an electrician, metal, insulation, door, it all adds up pretty quick. Everyone's just trying to help, I understand. And all the suggestions here are very well appreciated!

(sigh)

Oh well, maybe the next house will allow me a little more

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- Brad

www.theSecretSystemBand.com

"...over the years, 'the-blues' has raised many children..."

Brad:

Yeah, I am starting to feel as you do, and want this whole nightmare to be over with! I am way over budget (see my thread for a breakdown), and unfortunately, money is a finite resource at the moment!

I keep telling myself that this is a "home studio" and it is going to be *so* much better than what I had before (everything used to be in one room), but it is not going to be perfect and up to pro standards. I have neither the talent, the money, nor the inclination to take it to that level.

That being said, I do not want to waste money either! They say that the isolation ability of the room is only as good as it weakest link, so if I cut corners in one area, the rest of the work (and time/money) is wasted. I might as well have just built a "standard room" rather than a purpose-built studio using the techniques I have learned from Rod's book and this forum.

So it is one of those Catch 22 situations. I am tired, frustrated and broke, yet I hate to waste all that I have done up until now. So, I keep plodding along, investing more and more money, and more and more time.

(Sorry, but it is a dark and rainy day today, and I guess my mood is following the weather!).

The ultimate destination will be worth it however, and I need to keep that in my sights as I push on towards completion.

Best of luck with your rooms, you are doing a great job, and even with some compromises, you will have an awesome place in which to work!

_________________
James

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
Napoleon Bonaparte