John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

Hey Greg. I'm trying to figure out something on this image that you posted:



You say that the OSB/drywall goes on the LOWER edge of the truss (ie, underneath the "joist"), but from your diagram if looks like it is going on the UPPER edge (on top of the "joist"). Which one is right?

If it is the upper edge that you are planning, or if you can switch to making it the upper edge, then there's an interesting diagram on page 77 of Rod's book that might interest you: If you rotate your joists on the inner leaf 90 degrees, then you could fit them up BETWEEN the truss joists (parallel), and thus gain a couple of inches of precious height...!!!! Of course, you might have to re-design your entire room, turning everything 90 degrees to get the spans correct, but if finished ceiling height is your number one concern, then that would be a great way of winning back a couple of wonderful, valuable inches!

- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.

Hey Stuart,

The OSB and drywall will go within the joist cavities (upper edge).

I was actually thinking about the same thing. Whenever I'm re-considering things I try to go back and read what Rod had to say about it in the book - I reread that very section on Saturday night. I did initially consider that design but decided not to go that route for a few reasons;

1. it certainly seems like a trickier build for starters
2. It would make the inclusion of insulation batts difficult (I don't think Rod covers that in the book - maybe assuming no insulation?)
3. And most importantly it would mean a longer span for the rooms - 17' 6" (although the control room could technically utilize the divider walls for support).

With that span I'd either have to go 12"OC or use 2x8s at 16"OC.

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

Upward and onward - now I'm thinking about HVAC.

I'm pretty sure I've found the contractor who will install my system. He's got experience with mini-splits in recording studios. And apparently he's done some work for one of the members of Glass Tiger who lives about 10 minutes from me and has a private studio. Most importantly, he seems to genuinely like the idea of a challenge and in doing things a little different than the norm.

I've been putting off thinking about ducting for the HRV and potential sound transmission. I just don't have a solid plan yet and I feel pretty ignorant even though I've been trying to read up a bunch. Silencers or not? Flexduct or insulated metal ducts?

I put together this plan as a starting point. You can see that I at least plan to split the supply and returns in order to have separate feeds to the control room and live room. The current thought is to use insulated flexduct and to create at least one right angle along each run. All duct runs would be in the attic as well as the HRV itself.

Any initial thoughts on this?

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

I had an extremely informative email conversation with a truss engineering & design company located here in Ontario (DJ Jackson Truss Components). Their opinion based on all the information I provided and on some calculations they ran was that my existing truss is capable of carrying the load I intend to put up on it with an acceptable amount of deflection!

I thought I'd detail what I learned from them here as I'm sure others will find it useful.

My truss design is known as a Queen (fan) design. I've attached an image of this design.

Mine spans 18', has a rise of 3', sits 24" on center, and is comprised of 2x4s for the bottom and top chords while the webbing studs are 2x3s.

They told me that all truss designs (in Ontario, Canada) must meet deflection requirements while carrying a 7 psf load, and all truss' are therefore tested with this load in the design phase as a matter of minimum code requirement.

They ran calculations for my truss in particular and found that with a 7psf load this truss would deflect .39" over the total length.

I inquired about sistering the lower chord (which they called scabbing). They said that if the lower chord was scabbed with an additional 2x4 the entire span it would reduce the deflection to .32", but did caution that adding studs to members can potentially adversely affect other members in the truss by throwing off the balance of the design.

Cool!

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

Oh - just to clarify - this is to do with my existing ceiling truss, not the inner ceiling issue of 2x4s vs. 2x6s etc that we were just talking about.

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

Really long overdue for an update.

Pic 1 - After getting the good news about my truss' capabilities I went ahead and put up some additional 1x4s on top of the lower chord (there were already two put up for stability when the truss was originally put in).

Pic 2 - I also sistered a couple 2x4s together and cut them to fit in the 24" OC space on the top plate of the wall. I will caulk these up nicely eventually.

Pic 3 - Insulation in! I looked for nylon strapping to hold the insulation in place but couldn't find anything in town. I ended up buying nylon threaded string - I think 250' for about $4.50. I think its perfect! Since the the two layers of drywall reduced the depth of the stud cavities to about 2"-2.25" I cut 1" of depth off the insulation. Once I had done two of these I then put the two 1" pieces back to back and used them in the third stud cavity. The cavities with these two 1" pieces required a little more nylon string to keep them from bulging out in the center

Pic 4 - I built some bass traps a year or two ago and I learned the trick of using an electric carving knife to cut the insulation cleanly from someone online. It certainly is quicker than a bread knife, but still a PITA.

Pic 5 & 6 - Brien had suggested I should be caulking around the garage door a few posts back and after posting that I wasn't sure it was necessary I quickly realized that he was of course absolutely right. (Thanks Brien!) I went out and got some clear silicone caulk designed for windows and doors. I was looking for something designed for cement/concrete but Lowe's only had that in grey and I wanted clear. I applied the caulking and I think I did a pretty good job. We had rain the following day and nothing came inside. But then we had a crazy storm with high winds blowing the rain directly against the door. The water came in alright!

You can't really see it in the pics but the silicone did lift up a bit from the concrete in spots. It seems to me that it should of held - perhaps I'm not as skilled at handling my caulk as I thought? At any rate, I ripped out all of the caulking and bought the concrete stuff. Taking up silicone caulking without leaving residue is not much fun.

I can't show you pics of the new caulking because we just got dumped on with snow today. But there's no leaks yet! I'll be caulking on the inside as well.

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

I also started building the wall to go up in front of the garage door. I'm building it in two sections. Its just standing up against the wall unattached for now (except for a couple screws to make sure it doesn't crack my head open).

My HVAC guy will likely be installing all the flexduct, wiring, etc in the next couple weeks. I need to have the cable company out to determine what will be involved in getting a coax run into the garage (this carries my internet as well as phone). I hope to run it up through the soffit into the attic and then down through the ceiling in the equipment room. I'm contemplating a conduit run for this......but still contemplating.

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

Hi guys,

I'm at the point where I need to replace the existing entry door at the back of the garage so that I can get ready to install the Dricore subfloor and keep things moving. I've been going crazy trying to figure out what type of door to put in here since it will be exposed to the elements.

The door currently opens inward and I'll need to make this one open outward so that I can install a 2nd door on the inner-leaf wall that will open inward. The existing door and sill is hopeless and will all be replaced.

The options as I see them are;

1. Compromise by using a pre-hung steel door (filled with foam) and beef up the weatherstripping and seals all around - then put a 1 3/4" solid core door on the inner leaf, perhaps even adding an extra half inch of plywood laminated to its surface. Don't like this option.

2. Buy a pre-hung exterior door to get the weatherstripping, sill and frame but then replace the actual door with a 1 3/4" solid core door and try to sell the door to recoup some of the money. I'd have to keep up with the priming and painting of the outer face with a wood door being exposed to the elements. I'm not sure if this will work well since the new door would really have to be identical in size of the pre-hung door.

3. Simply buy a sill separately, build the frame myself and install door, hinges, weatherstripping all from scratch. Yikes A lot of work - not a lot of confidence in my ability!

I actually picked up a 1 3/4" solid wood door that is the right size for the existing doorway from a local non-profit place called ReStore - run by an organization called Habitat for Humanity. Got it for $13!! It does have a hardware hole cut into it but I'm hoping to use it on either the inner or outer door.

I'm going down to another ReStore location closer to the city today. I've heard it is much larger - so I'll see what they've got and post back.

Hoping for a miracle!!

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

Flex duct is not a good choice for long runs as it has a high friction coefficient. A better choice is to fabricate out of ductboard or use insulated sheet metal ducts. My best advice is to keep researching until you thoroughly understand how a system goes together and what materials work best under what conditions. Then you can evaluate any recommendations by HVAC contractors based on your specific needs.

Reference: http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/DesignGuide ... ystems.pdf
http://www.bookmarki.com/Bob-s-House-Un ... 765373.htm
http://www.standexadp.com/install.htm
http://www.bookmarki.com/Manual-D-Resid ... 765500.htm
http://www.acca.org/store/product.php?pid=318
http://www.hvaccomputer.com/gtarget1.as ... DQod820_Qw
http://www.energy.ca.gov/efficiency/qua ... dures.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hvac- ... -t_23.html
http://ducts.lbl.gov/
http://www.toolbase.org/ToolbaseResourc ... tegoryID=6

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Relax, life can be fun if you let it.

Make sure you use pressure treated lumber and a foam seal under the bottom plates or anywhere else wood contacts concrete. Wood + concrete = rot.

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Relax, life can be fun if you let it.

Hi Sanders,

Thanks for chimmin' in and for the great links. I did wrestle with whether or not to use the flexduct. I have discussed with my contractor the issue of increased back-pressure due to sagging of the duct, and the possibility of the HRV automatically switching up to a higher setting as a result. He also spoke to the supplier about my particular install and special requirements. As of right now, I feel okay about going ahead with it but since my contractor just went away for two weeks I've got some time to examine things a little more - I'm definitely going to read through those links!

- Greg

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

Well - I ended up using the foam strip but I didn't use pressure-treated lumber for the foot plate. I probably should have.

I GOT MY PERMIT TODAY!!!!!

Man! It took 3 incredibly frustrating and nerve-racking months but now its all official!

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

Update!

It's been far too long since I last posted and I have achieved a few things. Here's pics and descrips;

Pic 1&2 - Because the existing door at the back of the garage opens into the room I had to raise it to get the subfloor installed. But since I'll be building a frame that spans the outer and inner walls (inner walls not built yet) I ended up pulling out the door and frame, raising it and putting the existing door back on temporarily. The sill was actually leaking pretty bad before and getting the surrounding studs wet on the inside so I also fixed that while I was at it. I then also finished off the drywall 'beef' and insulation in the surrounding stud cavities.

Pics 3,4,5&6 - In order to cut out the new doorway on the side of the garage, which will be the main entrance, I had to excavate an area on the outside and install a retaining wall. Before and after pics. I'll be putting down some flagstone and we'll pretty things up with some planters on top of the wall.

More to follow....

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

and more....

Pics 1-3 - After supporting the ceiling truss temporarily I cut out the opening for the new doorway with a reciprocating saw for the wood and circular saw with masonry blade for the cinder block. I scored the block and then hammered it out. On the one side I broke out too much block and had to fill it back in with mortar.

You can also see the finished outer leaf wall in front of the garage door. And the Dricore subfloor system just went in recently with the help of a friend. I'll likely use tapcom screws in places where its not down snug on the concrete. There's a 1/4" gap around the perimeter where I plan to put backer rod and acoustic caulk before building the inner leaf walls.

Pics 4-6 - The HVAC contractor installed the HRV in the attic as well as the flexduct (which I decided to stick with) and the rough runs for the mini-split. They put the intake and exhaust ports in the gable end of the attic. I plan on building a silencer box to go on both the supply and exhaust ports of the live room but not on the ports for the control room. I'll be posting my plans shortly to get some feedback.

more to come....

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'We're just amateur lovers with amateur friends' - Switchfoot

looking good