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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:58 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:37 am 
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Hello everyone.

This is my first post here, though I have spent a good amount of time over at Ge@r$lutz. I have a thread over there, related to soffits, and I was hoping to get some thoughts on it:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-tra ... n-etc.html

I apologize if this is frowned upon.


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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:06 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:08 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Quote:
...and I was hoping to get some thoughts on it:
Some thoughts, Real quick:

1) Please read the stickies on this forum.
2) Start your own thread, instead of hijacking someone else's.
3)
Quote:
"9' wide, 9' long, just over 8' tall":
Ouch! You'll have to fix those dimentions in order to get a usable room.
4)
Quote:
Front wall - floor to ceiling, nearly wall to wall trap. 4" thick 6lb. density rockwool.
Do you mean 6 pounds per cubic foot? WOW! That's about twice as dense as it should be. You probably should fix that. Stuff that dense wont be helping much with your low end.
5)
Quote:
Ceiling rear - (2) skyline diffusors (measurements to follow)
diffusers are useless in such a small room. Get rid of them: they'll probably only be creating lobes around the room.
6)
Quote:
corners are filled with Foam -by - mail's 18" corner chunks.
Useless. Get rid of it and replace it with something useful.
7)
Quote:
The monitors rest a top the hollow desk,
Get rid of the desk. It is most likely resonating and coloring your room sound.
8)
Quote:
and angled slightly upward using Auralex's mopads.
You say you want advise on soffit mounting, so you already realize why the above is all wrong... :)
9) Looking at your diagrams, your mix position is practically right in the middle of the room! And it is a square room! ooops....
10) You didn't mention any cloud. Do you have a cloud?
11)
Quote:
So I've read the soffit mount thread over at the John Sayer's forum. Based on the vented design posted there... (see below)
Which thread? There are dozens of soffit mount threads here! Which one are you referring to?
12)
Quote:
-A lower super chunk, with the vent stack through the top.
-A speaker assembly, with the vent through the top and bottom, but the rest of the cavity filled with sand.
-And an upper super chunk, again with the vent stack penetrating the bottom.
If I understand your plan correctly, you won't be maximizing your baffle dimensions (soffit front panel, surrounding the speaker) like that, and you won't be doing any absorption inside the soffit. I would correct both of those. You want the baffle as large as possible (ideally 48 inches across, both vertically and horizontally) with the speaker as close to the center as you can get it. I don't see the point of the sand, either.
13)
Quote:
Should the top assembly be a super chunk, or do you loose the soffit effect in the process?
No to the first part, yes to the second part.
14)
Quote:
My Yamaha monitors (HS80m) have a rear port. Does that automatically disqualify them as a soffit mount candidate?
Perhaps, but not necessarily.
15)
Quote:
I've read in multiple places that the 90 degree set-up is legit.
Yes it is. So is 60. So is anything in between. As always, there are trade-offs, such as "squashing" your sweet spot and spreading your image a bit, but no big deal. If that's what it takes to make your room geometry work, then that's what it takes!
16)
Quote:
>However, I've read in multiple places that the 90 degree set-up is legit.
Then you need to slap multiple persons using a suitably large fish.
You probably don't want to slap guys like John Sayers with a fish! :shock: Nor his very satisfied customers with their great studios...
17)
Quote:
I guess I was confused, because in the John Sayer's forum, the soffit thread showed the bottom portion of the soffit as an absorber. It was explained as an effect to cure the bounce back from the back of the console.
There is an absorber ON THE FRONT of the extended baffle, yes. But at that distance from the speaker it really isn't relevant, as the LF sound waves still "see" the baffle behind absorption, rather than the absorption itself. The further you get away from the speaker center, the less important is the density of the soffit surface (but you still need something dense behind the surface, of course).
18) Personally, for your room I'd go with soffits at something between 60 and 90°: Whatever angle gets you out of the 50% null and close to the 38% mark, comfortably, while also allowing you to center your speakers in the soffits (side to side), maximizing soffit width (as close to 48" as you can get it) and also leaving as large a center panel (vertical space between the soffits) for some major absorption there. I'd also use the lower section of the soffit for bass trapping, probably with hangers, or maybe just stuffed with rockwool. Leave a gap at the bottom (the soffit does not actually reach the floor. John recommends 12 inches): That section with the hangers would be a sealed box. The section above that has the speakers in it would be a separate box. I'd make the front panels (the infinite baffles) from something massive and dense, such as MDF, HDF, plywood, lead sheeting, concrete, etc. Given the size and location of your console, I'd be inclined (no pun intended!) to raise the speakers a little and tilt the entire soffits forwards a bit, but calculated very carefully to keep reflections off the console surface. You might not be able to do that...

Then I'd treat the first reflection points with thick absorption (6" rockwool, 48 kg/m3 density) spaced a little away from the walls / ceiling.

Then I'd do a ceiling cloud, possibly with a solid back if you have wall-floor flutter problems at present (do you?), and angled rearwards.

Then I'd treat the rear wall with thick absorption.

Then I'd build some massive superchunks in all the corners that I could get to realistically, but taking care to not suck out too much of the highs...

Then I'd test the room to see what else needs doing.

But that would just be me. Others might have different ideas....

FWIW

(oh yeah, and I'd cover the door with absorption, too! Major bad reflections coming off that thing!)

- Stuart -

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Hey Stuart,

thanks for the reply.

I'll keep this quick, so as not to hijack. (I'll repost my own thread later)

Just want to clarify, the post re- "slapping with a fish": I didn't say that, it was a responder on the thread. I'd hate to get off on a worse foot than I already have.

I shouldn't have expected anyone to read a 3 page long thread, especially since the first two pages are pretty useless. I'll start a new one perhaps tomorrow with sketchups to illustrate my specific questions.

Thanks again,

John


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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:38 am 
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Great thread!!!

Have a question related to the topic.

I will go with soffit mount with my Focal Twins 6Be. Still deciding if I should add the SUB or not. I like more bass.
Has anyone tried to soffit mount the SUB in the lower center position of the front wall? Is this something worth to try?


BTW, has anyone soffit mounted these Focals, yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:02 am 
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I'm not sure if you'd benefit much from soffit mounting a sub. Perhaps. I'll leave that to one of the real acoustic experts to answer, but I suspect it won't do much for you: very long wavelengths, and basically non-directional sound anyway, so it would have to be a huge soffit to do any good. I'd prefer to just leave the sub on the floor, tight up against the front wall.

IMHO.

- Stuart -

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:09 am 
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I have another Q. Does it make any sense to soffit mount all 3 pairs of speakers?
Twin Focals, Dynaudio BM6 and small avantones. In this way I don't have obstacles
on top of my rack/desk in front of me.

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:20 am 
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Purusha wrote:
I have another Q. Does it make any sense to soffit mount all 3 pairs of speakers?
Twin Focals, Dynaudio BM6 and small avantones. In this way I don't have obstacles
on top of my rack/desk in front of me.


I would only soffit mount your mains. You secondary reference speakers... I wouldn’t bother...
Just place them in such a way as NOT to cause issues with hearing your mains.

People have been bridge mounting speakers on their consoles for years. ANd we love and study those mixes....

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:24 am 
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Maybe I'll just sell the Dynaudio monitors. Can't find any special use in them next to the Focal Twins. I dig the Avantones though.

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:06 am 
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I just heard the new Opal monitors from Event today. IMHO, these are one of the best monitors you can buy today for under 5000-8000$. 8)

I decided I want these soffit mounted in my new studio instead of the Focals :yahoo:

I know it will be a bit of a challenge but I think I saw someone flush mounted similarly shaped monitors before. Can someone please confirm if it's doable?


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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:12 am 
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Shape is a minor issue. Go for it and let us know....

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Yep, I agree! It doesn't like there would be any issues with doing that: They look similar to the Genelec's, which actually can be soffit mounted. Genelec even sells a kit for soffit mounting their monitors. (Strangely enough, with their kit the monitor actually sticks out of the wall. Not sure why. I guess it is designed to do that.)

But the point is that yours most likely can be mounted successfully, so like Giles I say: go for it!

Do they have bass roll-off controls on them?

- Stuart -

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 Post subject: Re: Soffit mounting?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:22 pm 
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They have very nice range control in front section :)

I will go for it :!:

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