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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:57 am 
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Location: Germany, NRW, Cologne
Hallo,
i will build a new studio mixing room in the future and maybe can get some advise for the room construction here.
I already read a lot of things and builded my first rooms.
But for the new one im unsure whats best.
Maybe i can get some advice here.

The room dimension at the moment are about 6,50L x 5,40W, x3,30H Meter.
Room shape is a square room but the roof is sloped from 3,30 to 3,80

Is it better to shorten the width to about 4,50 to get better ratios ?
Or is it better to leave more volume in the room with the given width ?

When i try to face the short side in the room (where the window to the live room is)
The ceiling(roof of the house is sloped) and going from the right side at 3,30 to the left side up to 3,80
So this way the mixing room is not symmetrical

Is it recommened to put a flat ceiling into the room ? wich will be 3,20 high.
Or fill the space with absorbend material ?
Or i can face the long side then the ceiling will go up behind me.
But i like it more to face the short side for ergonimics and to have a better view in the recording room.
And i think its better to face the short side.

Any advice would be great.
If something else is needed let me know.
Thank you


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:14 am 
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Hi "StudioDE", and Welcome! :)

Sorry about the delay in replying: I had not seen your post for some reason...

Quote:
The room dimension at the moment are about 6,50L x 5,40W, x3,30H Meter.
Room shape is a square room but the roof is sloped from 3,30 to 3,8
Is this going to be a control room (tracking/mixing/mastering)? Or is it going to be a live room/rehearsal room? There are differences in the way these to types of room should be treated. I'm assuming this is going to be a control room.

That's a very nice sized space for a control room: You have about 35m2 of floor area, and over 115 m3 of room volume, so this can be a very good room.

Quote:
Is it better to shorten the width to about 4,50 to get better ratios ?
You would have to shorten the length, not the width, since the problem here is the relationship between the height and the length, not the height and width. You would have to shorten it to about 6.2m to "fix" that. However, your ratio is not bad the way it is, and ratios only really apply to rectangular rooms, where the surfaces are all mutually parallel and perpendicular in all senses, but that's not the case in your room: the ceiling rises from 3.3 to 3.8m, so it is not a rectangle, and therefore ratios are not fully applicable. In fact, for the 3.8m end of the room, the ratio is fine, and indeed it is fine all the way down to 3.42m, so MOST of the room is great.

Also, ratios are just one aspect of room design: there are many others.

I would not be worried about your ratio: it's fine. Especially if you plan to flush-mount your speakers ("soffit-mount"), as that would shorten the apparent length of the room anyway.

Quote:
The ceiling(roof of the house is sloped) and going from the right side at 3,30 to the left side up to 3,80
So this way the mixing room is not symmetrical
That's unfortunate: it would have been perfect if the ceiling sloped upwards from front to back: having it sloped across the room like that isn't so great. But you do still have very good ceiling height. If your final ceiling height ends up at about 3.1m, that would be a good ratio, but even at 3.2, it's still fine.

I'm assuming that these are all the final INTERIOR dimensions, AFTER the room has been isolated, correct? Isolation will take up a bit of space, so if you are not considering isolation yet, then that changes the interior dimensions.

Quote:
Is it recommened to put a flat ceiling into the room ? wich will be 3,20 high.
In your case, yes. Symmetry is very important.

Quote:
Or fill the space with absorbend material ?
You could probably use that space above the inner-leaf ceiling on the 3.8 m side, for your HVAC silencers and ducts.

Quote:
Or i can face the long side then the ceiling will go up behind me.
But i like it more to face the short side for ergonimics and to have a better view in the recording room.
Definitely it is better to face the short wall, with the speakers aiming down the long dimension! That's one of the keys to getting good acoustics in small rooms.

If you could show a diagram and some photos of the room, that would help us to understand it better.


- Stuart -

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:21 am 
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Location: Germany, NRW, Cologne
Quote:
Sorry about the delay in replying: I had not seen your post for some reason.
..

No problem, thank you very much for your reply

Quote:
I'm assuming this is going to be a control room.

Yes, this is the control room


Quote:
I would not be worried about your ratio: it's fine. Especially if you plan to flush-mount your speakers ("soffit-mount"), as that would shorten the apparent length of the room anyway.

Yes i plan to flush mount my speakers, Neumann kh 310 @ the moment. Dont know if its a good idea with these speakers.
But its possible to do it.
Im a bit confused about soffit mounting and wall leaves.
I think the the flush mount wall is not for isolating the tracking and controll room because of the air gap for ventilation ?
So can i build the flush mount wall before my two leave wall or is the flush mount wall already my seconf leave ?


Quote:
I'm assuming that these are all the final INTERIOR dimensions, AFTER the room has been isolated, correct? Isolation will take up a bit of space, so if you are not considering isolation yet, then that changes the interior dimensions.


I have no direct neigbours so i have not planned to isolate the control room. Acoustic treatment only i think @ the moment.
Only the roof because i have to flatten the ceiling.
Should i make the framework for the flat ceiling from the roof bar or from the walls ?
All four walls are 30 cm concrete. Only on one side is a neighbour house about 20 meters away.
The wall to the recording room is also concrete and i will islote the recording room.



Quote:
If you could show a diagram and some photos of the room, that would help us to understand it better.

I made a rudymentary diagram of the studio rooms. I will post some better ones in the future. Im not familiar with sketchup @ the moment but maybee this will help to understand more of the room.

The doors are at a bad position but it seems that i have no other chance. Will it work with the door in these spot ?

I read in an other post that the dimension of the recording room should be much bigger than the control room. So should i make the control room smaller ?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:10 pm 
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Location: Germany, NRW, Cologne
Here is a better plan of the rooms.
At the moment there is a wall (yellow line) in the controll room.
I plan to tear off the yellow wall to get a bigger room.
Two small stands from the yellow wall have to stay there.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:18 pm 
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Location: Germany, NRW, Cologne
Any thoughts on this plan ?
The size informations are in cm and meter.
The light blue wall should be my inner leaf.
The red and grey wall is the outer leave (red is open at the moment)
The yellow line is an existing wall wich i plan to tear off to get a bigger room.
But for the static i think i have to leave two small stands there.
To get these stand acusticaly covered i plan to disappear it behind the slanted inner leaf.
I would be very thankful for some advice
If something else is needed let me know.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:29 am 
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Quote:
At the moment there is a wall (yellow line) in the controll room.
I plan to tear off the yellow wall to get a bigger room.
Did you check that with a structural engineer? You can't just rip out any old wall without first making sure that it is not load-bearing, or structural in some other way.

Quote:
i think i have to leave two small stands there.
Possibly, but your structural engineer will tell you about that, after he analyzes the building structure and calculates the loads, sheer, stresses, tensions and strains...

Quote:
Any thoughts on this plan ?
- You are wasting room volume with the splayed inner walls, and also making construction more complex.
- Put your main door into the CR where the red area is, more towards the rear of the room (but still leaving plenty of space in the rear corner for bass trapping).

Quote:
To get these stand acusticaly covered i plan to disappear it behind the slanted inner leaf.
Probably, but first find out with your structural engineer how big they have to be, then see if it is possible to have the pillars inside the wall cavity, or if you might have to work around them with the inner leaf.

- Stuart -

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I want this studio to amaze people. "That'll do" doesn't amaze people.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Quote:
Did you check that with a structural engineer? You can't just rip out any old wall without first making sure that it is not load-bearing, or structural in some other way.


An engineer checked it and it semms that i can rip out the wall but have to leave two 20 cm stands on the sides. In the worst case 30 cm.
So im not shure if i can leave them in the room ( its about 2,50 from the front wall) or should i cover them with an inner wall ?

Quote:
- Put your main door into the CR where the red area is, more towards the rear of the room (but still leaving plenty of space in the rear corner for bass trapping).


Its possible, i can eventualy move the door maybee 1,25 more to the back wall.
but the area behind the red wall is used for kitchen and other stuff, so for the rest of the building its best to leave the door
in the place written in the plan.
But if you mean its not working for the control room i will move it. Is it not possible to leave the door in this spot on the plan ?

One complete other idea is to use the existing room and dont rip out the yellow wall.
this will be a lot cheaper, But i have a smaller room with only 5,30l x 4,20b x with sloped ceiling from front 3,20 to back 3,60 meters
And i have to change the direction in the room. So the window to the controll room will not be in front of the mixing desk. Its on the left side than.

Is this a better option ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Any Ideas or help would be really great.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:02 am 
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Sorry for the long delay.
Building the house took a bit more time than expected.
But now im in the final process of building the Control Room.

My main problem at the moment ist the window to the live room.
I can only build the window in the left wall from the mixing position.
Not in the front wall, because i decided to rearange the rooms. I have not ripped the yellow wall out.
And use the room like it is. Now i have the Dimensions of 5,70 long x 4,20 wide and the ceiling goes from the mix position up to the end of the room from 3,20 to 3,80.
So the live room is on my left side and im not sure if i should install a window there or not ?
For tracking it would be very good, but for mixing its not ideal.
So option 1 is no window for ideal mixing or option 2 a Window with sliding absorbers ? So i can open them when tracking and close them when mixing.
What is preferable ?

In the back where the room is 3,80 high i have alot of space for absorbers does it makes sense to fill the ceiling at the back end of the room with a lot of absoprtion ? I thought i cans easily install 4 full packs of rockwool there. Is this a good idea ?
Do i need absorption over the mixing position for early reflections or is the angle of the ceiling enough for a RFZ ?

Would you recommend to build Neumann KH 310 in a Soffit ?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:33 pm 
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as long as the left-side window would be mainly behind you're seating position, it's nice to have, but most times just using a large flat screen TV monitor in each room will mimic a window and more.

the KH310 can be soffit mounted but as they're active, make sure you have enough ventilation and access to the electronics back panel in case you need to adjust (some folks pull out their monitors when needed, others have added an access panel so using a light and mirror can adjust without disturbing the mounting.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:02 am 
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Thank you for your reply.
I draw a little plan from the CR
Sorry im not familiar with Sketchup.
The painting is not very acurat. But maybee its easier to visualize.
Lets say i need the Window on the side wall,
does it make sense to angle the window, place absorption under and over it and mirror it with a wood plate and absorption on the other wall ?
Like a splay wall.

If i decide to flush mount the speakers do i need to build the red line wall in my painting between the two corners where the boxes are in
or can the corner walls run to the main front wall ( to save a bit of space. So that the flush wall connects from side to front wall and not from side wall to side wall.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:09 pm 
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the angled one works. just also make sure you factor in the live room side - which could be straight if that helps with visual aspects.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:30 am 
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Thats fine, yes on the recording side i will make it straight.
Any recommendation for the angele of the window ?
I will post some photos of the room soon.
Is ok to alter the 60 degree angel of the flush wall a little if it suits more to to the room ?

If i decide to flush mount the speakers do i need to build the red line wall in my painting between the two corners where the boxes are in
or can the corner walls run to the main front wall ( to save a bit of space. So that the flush wall connects from side to front wall and not from side wall to side wall. ?

Thank you verry much for all your efforts


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