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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:39 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Joshua Tree, California
Hi all,
I posted this in the design forum and wasn't getting any takers. Probably because some of my questions have to do with construction. So here I am.

It's been a while since my last post here. I been reading feverishly trying to get all the details worked out for this, my third studio attempt. I wish this kind of resource was available then. My experience has been earned the hard way, lots of mistakes. I hope to get this one right.

I attached some pics for reference feel free to rip them apart to your hearts content, providing you can offer a positive alternative. I live in a secluded area in the high desert, but my wife and I have a ministry to neglected/abused children so I have 10 kids wandering around, so much for my natually quiet surroundings.

Please excuse my drawings the design program I have is ancient and wouldn't let me draw splayed walls.

Control Room dimensions are 17'4 x 24'7" ceiling slopes 14' high side 8' low side.

Tracking rm dimensions are 21'x 23' with a little nook where the washer dryer currently reside.

The wall with the lines through it represents (box in a box) type construction, these wall don't come into contact with the existing walls, nor does the ceiling joist connected to them. I'm good on how to provide good isolation etc.. thanks to you guy's-- thanks.

I've got a few questions.

First-- My Cr ceiling slopes the wrong way for my mix position. The ceiling slopes the width of the room, my mix position the length. I designed these bass trap/sofits that go around the room, These are covered by 1/4" clear pine ply and sealed. They will contain the largest flexable ducting I can fit (hvac) and stuffed with mineral wool.

The angle of these trap/sofits is about 25deg. From my mix position will this angle cure most of the symetry problems I have, In directing waves away from the mix position. The ceiling is designed to gobble -up any reflections since the floors are wood. Any ideas? I hope I'm clear.

Second question-- for good isolation I'm not suppose to have any hard connection between layers, in this case walls. Look at my CR drawing at the door leading to the lounge. I have a no-connect splayed wall, then no-connect (box in a box) wall, and then the existing wall (also no-connect).

How do I finish this without hard connection so it will be and look right and look finished ? I was thinking high density upolstery foam ? I just don't know. Your help with this would be awesome. I've got alot of places with this same problem- doors and the back control rm wall. The back CR wall and all splayed walls are sealed in the back by double layer sheetrock 5/8" and 1/2" Built in 4' sections roxul rht-40 following John's plans, some will be slats some will be cloth covered. The back CR wall cloth with hangers in the gaps.

Third-- I would really be greatfull for any dialog regarding my design, how to do it better, way's to improve it, ways to ease the pain .
just let me know what else you need for background info. I'll provide it pronto.

By the way my occupation involves consulting with general/electrical contractors on technology wiring for commercial buildings, security,network, automated lighting, A/V, etc... so I'm pretty hip to what's up with that end of things, now and future. If I can help with that end of things for anyone else just let me know.

God Bless, David.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:06 am 
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Location: West Coast, USA
I added some spaces to your post to make it easier to follow - my first question would be, how much of this is already built? Reason for the question is, I would rotate your CR 90 degrees counterclockwise if it's not too late - it's easier to do a wide CR than to compensate for the wrong ceiling slope.

Gaps between walls - doesn't take much of a gap, 1/2" is plenty to keep flanking from happening - some people use black cloth-covered rockwool, others Celotex, still others attach covers on only one side with a thin spacer under so visually it's solid, but structurally there is an offset with only one side of this "cover" attached. See the attached sketch for some ideas... Steve


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 Post subject: Thanks Knightfly
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:39 pm
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Location: Joshua Tree, California
Construction has not yet started, so any alternate ideas on rearranging things to accomodate my ceiling would be greatly appreciated.

I would like to utilize as much space as posible for the control room. I have alot of stuff and a large console 9+ feet long.

I have attempted to re-orientate my plan in the past, I can't think of how to make it work.

My main hang up is the windows between the tracking room and vocal booth, each must be where I have them on the plans, as the existing structure dictates this.

Ideally my mix position would be facing opposite the windows based on my ceiling plan, unfortunately I would have little to no visual accessibility, even if I turned completely around.

Next best I suppose?--- would be to face the mix position centered in the room facing the soffits. This would at least have me pointed in the correct direction to look out the CR windows, although the windows would be quite far to my left, and my view would be partially obstructed.

Perhaps my ceiling plan is flawed? I could forget about the fancy ceiling and leave it a flat 8' ceiling. Tear off the old drywall and spray on acoustic and replace it with drop-in- black, cloth covered 703 or the likes?

I really hate that idea, as I would like to build this studio correctly and compromise as little as possible. I've owned enough compromised-- poorly planned rooms over the years, and there's no point to buiding another one.

Anyway I would be greatful for your thought's on this matter. Sometimes I get my head so buried in all this that I lose objectivity. That is certainly the case here.

A side note.

You know what I really hate (and love) are nights when I am at my whits end having sweated over my plans for hours and I see no hope in sight.

Then I post my -- Impossible Problem -- on the fourm here.

The next morning I check my mail and our host Mr. Sayers or one of the other Moderators has posted the perfect solution to my impossible problem. it's especially effective with Mr. Sayers posts -with his full color to scale drawings detailing my fix. (Of course followed by his monaker "Cheers" )

Thanks all God Bless, David


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:16 pm 
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David, if you were to instead rotate your CR 90 degrees CLOCKwise, then hang about a 4' wide 3 or 4 inch thick "cloud" full length over your console, would your sight lines work that way? You do NOT want to be centered front/rear in the room, it looks like you'd be forward enough to see into the booth...

This would eliminate the left-right unevenness, and your hvac/trap would redirect front reflections; the cloud covering the resulting peak would fix any "focussing" caused by the ceiling peak - if not with just absorbent, then adding a layer of plywood above the cloud... Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:45 pm 
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knightfly wrote:
Gaps between walls - doesn't take much of a gap, 1/2" is plenty to keep flanking from happening - some people use black cloth-covered rockwool, others Celotex, still others attach covers on only one side with a thin spacer under so visually it's solid, but structurally there is an offset with only one side of this "cover" attached. See the attached sketch for some ideas... Steve

This is reviving a very old, but very useful thread, hoping for some clarification.

Elsewhere on gearslutz, and in his book, Rod G talks about using a rubber seal to make the gap between the windows AIRTIGHT, before adding fabric covered fibreglass. In the very useful images above you are not doing that; the gap is left slightly open. Can anyone explain why the gap might need to be airtight? I'm very concerned about the tightly sealed gap also creating flanking between the 2 walls. I'm equally concerned about missing something by not having an airtight gap. On the fence about how to proceed, and stuck in a risk/reward spiral, unable to move forward. Someone throw me a rope please!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:39 am 
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Solved it; it's to prevent dust ingress, not an acoustic treatment at all. Airtight for that reason. Here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/333500-questions-rod-gervais-about-his-book-build-like-pros-13.html#post15356323 is Rod's very useful reply to my question.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:25 am 
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Location: Old Tappan, NJ USA
the challenge potentially is moisture - condensation on the interior if it is all sealed. many studios (including ones i design) the windows can be readily (caveat - very large ones will take work :-)) to be removed for cleaning if necessary, but in generally, a few inches of semi-rigid insulation in the gap + the cloth covering seems to keep the space clean and prevent possible moisture build up.

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